Costco ?

[baldeagle]

cc'd at Costco in San Antonio yesterday; still no signs posted, new or otherwise...and yes, please let sleeping dogs lie.

My understanding is that we're given "effective notice" in the membership agreement.. If they keep that around, which they probably do, CC'ing and having a problem would be bad.

There is a loophole though - my wife got our membership. I've never signed a thing. However, I know it's their property and respect the rules in "their house".

Doesn't written notice have to be worded exactly like the sign?

Yes.

(3) "Written communication" means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun";

The wording in their policy is not in compliance to the law, so it is not effective notice. If you were "caught" CCing in their stores, they would have to verbally ask you to leave before you would be in violation for being in their stores.

[Lena]

but why cause an issue ? It is not worth it and only will cause more restrictions

[anygunanywhere]

but why cause an issue ? It is not worth it and only will cause more restrictions

When you CC anywhere are you in fear of being "caught"?

I couldn't count the number of non-compliant 30.06 signs and gun buster signs I have carried past.

[Lena]

but why cause an issue ? It is not worth it and only will cause more restrictions

When you CC anywhere are you in fear of being "caught"?

I couldn't count the number of non-compliant 30.06 signs and gun buster signs I have carried past.

No fear here, I do obey the laws/wishes of businesses sign is even worded correct or not they are advising you of their intent. . In many years of LE I learned just what can happen good/bad and it very real, it is just not worth it.
Remember you may win the battle and loose the war for many others. I cant count how many suspects we stopped who had a weapon and we asked them to place it in the trunk, depending of what stopped for and no outstanding warrants and the attitude displayed and if they admitted they had a weapon.

[cb1000rider]

baldeagle, thanks for the explanation...

[anygunanywhere]

but why cause an issue ? It is not worth it and only will cause more restrictions

When you CC anywhere are you in fear of being "caught"?

I couldn't count the number of non-compliant 30.06 signs and gun buster signs I have carried past.

No fear here, I do obey the laws/wishes of businesses sign is even worded correct or not they are advising you of their intent. . In many years of LE I learned just what can happen good/bad and it very real, it is just not worth it.
Remember you may win the battle and loose the war for many others. I cant count how many suspects we stopped who had a weapon and we asked them to place it in the trunk, depending of what stopped for and no outstanding warrants and the attitude displayed and if they admitted they had a weapon.

Concealed carry past non-compliant signs is totally legal, ethical, and has little to no risk. I fail to see the correlation you state about dealing with suspects. If you choose not to that is your business. I just disagree with your reasoning.

[Lena]

We just have to disagree is all and all ok here.
if I have a store and post a sign and the letters are only 3/4" it is not legal per law but I have conveyed my wishes with it, yes you are very correct but I have stated per the sign I do not wish for 'whatever' in my store by posting it, so you bring it to my attention, I kindly ask you to leave and get the legal 06/07 signs and then where are we ? We both loose. I just don't push it but do very much respect your views also. I would say we were both correct.

[drjoker]

Baldeagle, sorry, did not mean to insult you. Thanks for the explanation. I have the highest respect for our nation's servicemen (and women). Not putting a label on it anymore, but the point is that a lot of these guys (not all) have an attitude that is the same as when they were overseas, not realizing that things are different here. A gun in the hands of someone in a war zone who is not wearing your uniform is bad news. A gun in the holster of an American citizen is not bad news. My point is you should be really careful dealing with cops while you are armed or it could turn out really bad a la Eric Scott.

I agree with you guys. Do NOT write Costco and certainly do NOT OC at Costco. Although I don't like shopping there, my wife does. If they were to post 30.06, I'd have an argument with my wife on my hands about whether or not we should continue going to Costco. She's already really angry with me for not going to Whole Foods anymore. I am bummed, too. I've been shopping at Whole Foods since their original location in Austin decades ago.

I'm all for Open Carry, but, really, some things are LEGAL but not wise. Don't OC at Costco, church (especially if it is a Catholic church that has forgotten to post the dreaded 30.06/30.07 signs), Starbucks, Whataburger, etc.

Be VERY careful when dealing with cops while you are armed. The police force is increasingly militarized and not servants of the people anymore in many jurisdictions. Any police force that serves "no knock" warrants based on anonymous tips from drug addicts and criminals no longer serves its community. It has become a military force. Thankfully, most Texas cops are great, but that's why I live here and not New York City or Chicago. Even then, you should be careful. I was almost shot by a police officer once. Once, I called 911 to report a burglary at my place of business. The police officer snuck into my business, pointed a gun at me WITHOUT pointing a flashlight at me! It was dark inside, so how can he differentiate me from a perp? How can he see if I am armed or not? I immediately yelled out, "Don't shoot! I'm the owner!" with my hands up in the air.

Remember, a lot of these cops are returning vets. Some of these guys have PTSD that is undiagnosed (they were too "tough" to report it or didn't want the stigma). PTSD means that they will shoot you for the slightest provocation.

This is an uncalled for insult to veterans and based on false information besides. PTSD does not make someone homicidal or willing to "shoot you for the slightest provocation". That is a lie from the Vietnam War period promulgated by anti-war activists spreading communist propaganda.

The symptoms of PTSD are flashbacks, anxiety disorder, depression, avoidance activities, a desire for isolation, hyperarousal caused by certain stimuli and anger outbursts. Someone suffering from severe PTSD is more like to run from you or find a place to hide than to confront you.

[SA_Steve]

The last 20 years has seen big changes in qualifications for hiring - in all areas.
Assume the worst and you will often be correct.

[baldeagle]

We just have to disagree is all and all ok here.
if I have a store and post a sign and the letters are only 3/4" it is not legal per law but I have conveyed my wishes with it, yes you are very correct but I have stated per the sign I do not wish for 'whatever' in my store by posting it, so you bring it to my attention, I kindly ask you to leave and get the legal 06/07 signs and then where are we ? We both loose. I just don't push it but do very much respect your views also. I would say we were both correct.

Here's the problem. The law is quite specific about the requirements for signs. If a business puts up a non-compliant sign, you have no way of knowing what their intentions were. Did they really mean to deny carry but just misread the law? Or were they trying to placate the anti-gunners while still allowing legal carry? Because a non-compliant sign is the same as no sign, you cannot know what the intentions of the business were.

As a licensee, you have the right to honor every sign, no matter how non-compliant it is. You also have the right to ignore every non-compliant sign and go about your business. It's your choice. Neither behavior is illegal.

[Lena]

Agreed ...

To me if a sign is posted in view legal or not someone took the time to do so to convey a wish or thought, for me I would not question it..

[stealthfightrf17]

cc'd at Costco in San Antonio yesterday; still no signs posted, new or otherwise...and yes, please let sleeping dogs lie.

My understanding is that we're given "effective notice" in the membership agreement.. If they keep that around, which they probably do, CC'ing and having a problem would be bad.

There is a loophole though - my wife got our membership. I've never signed a thing. However, I know it's their property and respect the rules in "their house".

Doesn't written notice have to be worded exactly like the sign?

A written notice must be the exact wording of 30.06 or 30.07. Only difference in it is there is no sizing requirements if it is not a sign.

(3) “Written communication” means:
(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the
following: “Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by license
holder with a concealed handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H,
Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this
property with a concealed handgun”; or
(B) a sign posted on the property that:
(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English
and Spanish;
(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in
height; and
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

[Soccerdad1995]

Has everyone forgotten Eric Scott? He cc'ed into Costco and accidentally flashed his piece reaching for something on a high shelf. A Costco employee told him to leave the store. Eric disagreed with the employee but went straight to the checkout lane, in compliance. The employee did not think that was good enough so he (or she) called the cops with a MWAG call. Then, the cops came and used the poor guy for target practice. Keep in mind that this was in Nevada, an open carry state.

Take away lessons here;
1. Don't open carry in a corrupt police jurisdiction or even in a less than stellar police jurisdiction. How do you tell if the police is bad in the jurisdiction? Well, when cops shoot innocents, are they "put on unpaid leave" for a short while like Las Vegas or are they fired like the bad cops in Plano? Plano has had some bad cops but they (to my knowledge) were promptly fired. I would OC in Plano, but I wouldn't do so in Dallas. Dallas cops aren't bad, but Plano cops are better.

2. Don't open carry in an ant-2nd A business, even if they're not 30.07 posted. This means don't open carry in stores that have anti-2nd A policies or corporate memos such as Costco, Starbucks, Whataburger, and 30.06 posted places that forgot the 30.07 sign. Anti-2nd A businesses; http://www.2acheck.com/the-boycott-list/

3. When given verbal notice, leave IMMEDIATELY. This does not mean saunter to the checkout line, pay, then leave.

4. When you hear sirens, put down your gun AWAY from you and get down on the ground with your hands where they can see you. Do this before you even see the cops. Here is how to do it: https://youtu.be/Kr0X_gMri8k . Remember, a lot of these cops are returning vets. Some of these guys have PTSD that is undiagnosed (they were too "tough" to report it or didn't want the stigma). PTSD means that they will shoot you for the slightest provocation.

5. Only open carry when you really have to (you accidentally wore a really big coat and it is warm outside) or you are in an OC friendly business; Academy's, Cabela's, Wal-Mart (you may need to show your license), Home Depot and Kroger's. Otherwise, CC. Costco is NOT OC friendly. Just ask Eric Scott!

Not to mention that the security video system that would have captured the entire event at that Costco malfunctioned that day, really bad luck.

I've been a member of Costco (nee Price Club) since about 6 months after Mr. Price set it up in San Diego's Rose Canyon in 1976, but this occurrence in Vegas was very disquieting. I see no reason to accept the claim of malfunction, unless they bought their system at Costco.

Hey, it worked just fine up to and including the day before, and started working again the day after so it really was just a fluke malfunction.

[LucasMcCain]

Agreed ...

To me if a sign is posted in view legal or not someone took the time to do so to convey a wish or thought, for me I would not question it..

In many cases, this is true. However, there are also many cases where the decision to disallow licensed carry was made at the corporate level. The person running the individual store feels differently, so he posts a non compliant sign. He has fulfilled his responsibility to corporate without actually keeping anyone from carrying in his store. Unfortunately, the only way to know which of these scenarios you're dealing with is to ask. Asking will often result in compliant signs being posted. Personally, I feel that concealed means concealed. I will carry past non compliant signs, but of course leave immediately if asked. Ultimately, though, how you react to these situations is a personal decision, and I would not dream of criticizing your way of handling them.

[JALLEN]

Costco has made it plain that they won't post signs. They are a private membership warehouse, and if you enter with a firearm, and are discovered, however it happens, they refund your membership fee and cancel your membership on the spot.

This saves them the cost of all those signs (Costco is very frugal) and is a policy that can be used everywhere they operate, regardless of state law.