2GGs vs. 1BG Scenario

[Thiggy]

Sorry if this has been covered; I'm still new here.
I heard a personal defense/tactical weapons expert talking on Tom Gresham's Gun Talk a few months back and was curious about something he said. He always carries 2 CHs and stated that, given the opportunity, he would give his back-up firearm to someone else to aid him in extinguishing a threat. Simply stated, two are better than one. I never heard him state that he would have to be certain of the other persons ability to effectively handle a firearm, but I don't think anyone on this forum would give a gun to someone they didn't know, threat or no threat. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Getting down to brass tax, let's assume you are at some location with your best friend/relative (anyone whom has demonstrated their capabilities with a fire arm to you) , and a BG presents himself as a threat permitting a deadly force reaction. Do you give your back-up firearm to that person? Does it matter if they have a CHL (maybe they left their CH at home)? What liabilities are you incurring by supplying that weapon (civil and criminal)?

[Dan20703]

Sounds like it would better the chances of me and my friend living to see another day. I would hand over the gun if they had a CHL or not.
The only problem I can see is trying to get the second weapon out during all the excitement

[seamusTX]

Two points of view on this:

1. If you're justified in shooting, it's over real fast one way or another. You probably would not have time to unholster and hand a weapon to another person who is in an unknown emotional state.

2. It's dangerous to have multiple armed people in a high-stress situation. Cops sometimes shoot each other in such situations.

- Jim

[HighVelocity]

I can think of very few instances where I'd arm someone else to help me. Regardless of the circumstances, that person would have to be known to me.
A couple of examples might be;

1) I'm taking fire from multiple directions and have nowhere to run.
2) I'm seriously wounded and unable to stay in the fight.

The best reason to carry two guns though is that one may become inoperable or, even worse, lost in a scuffle.

[Liko81]

A question from the floor: When would you have the time to give your BUG to the person next to you, qualified or not? Most situations I can think of that would call for drawing your CCW are over in seconds. I could think of a gunman scenario where you could find an out-of-the-way spot and take ten seconds to hash out a plan, but most one-BG encounters where a lawful carrier can respond are over before many bystanders even know what's going on. Now, after the initial encounter, of course you draw your backup gun, give it to an acquaintance, and tell them to cover the BG while you keep your eyes peeled for any of his buddies. But, the definition of the scenario implies there aren't any buddies, and even though two are better than one, there are only two in the first place if you see it coming with enough advance notice to hand off the BUG.

[SRVA]

This appears to be another "sounds great in theory" but "not likely to work" situations.

[Thiggy]

I was thinking of a scenario where, instead of trying to draw and return fire immediately, you take cover and shoot. If you are with someone, they may be next to you behind cover and able to assist. I've never been in this situation (and hopefully never will be) but if someone came in to some location and began firing, I think my first reaction would be to protect myself by getting behind or under something and then returning fire when most advantageous to a more favorable outcome. I may be the only hope for the lives of everyone there and I'm not very useful dead. However, I often get the impression that as time goes by, the less likely I am to be the only CHL holder in ANY location.

However, the point of this post was more about the legal ramifications of such actions as opposed to the practical application.

[seamusTX]

My take on the legal situation is that if it's a righteous shooting, no criminal charges will be brought. The police usually do not arrest people without a CHL for having a handgun in that circumstance.

If you give a weapon to a person and he shoots someone without justification or damages property, you are almost certainly going to be named in a lawsuit, even if the plaintiff does not prevail against you.

- Jim

[WarHawk-AVG]

Plus your buddy might not be familiar with the firearm you just handed him

I have known people that took them 10 seconds to find the thumb safety on a 1911

Better to have one armed than try to compound the problem by loading someone another firearm

[tboesche]

I MAY tell my buddy where my BUG is in case I go down, but I will not hand my weapon to anybody else, particularly if I am under fire or about to be.

[Venus Pax]

I can think of very few instances where I'd arm someone else to help me. Regardless of the circumstances, that person would have to be known to me.
A couple of examples might be;

1) I'm taking fire from multiple directions and have nowhere to run.
2) I'm seriously wounded and unable to stay in the fight.

The Luby's in Killeen massacre is a prime example of a time that this may work.

[KD5NRH]

Well, I usually carry one and keep another in the car. My wife doesn't have a CHL yet, and she knows exactly where I keep that second gun. With our long driveway, we sometimes find cars parked, blocking the driveway, out of sight of the house. That creates a situation where we can risk reversing the whole way back to the house, or light it up with high-beams and spotlight, call the sheriff and wait to see what happens. If we're both in the car, she grabs the extra gun and puts it on her lap under her purse. The ones that don't just take off right away always seem to have the same story; looking for a friend's house (by sitting several yards off the paved road through a (open, but obvious) gate with the car off, apparently a new search technique) and either can't remember the name or give a name we don't recognize. (low population density out here; we may not know all of the people on the county road, but the odds of naming one we don't know are a bit on the slim side) Of course, the sheriff gets all the details we can gather either way, and I generally put the same info in my pocket notepad and try to get a photo or two in case they happen to be in the area again later.

While I'd rather she not empty a high-capacity 9mm directly in front of my face in the confines of a Mazda Protege, I can think of plenty of ways those could have gone bad that would make hearing loss and flash burns quite a bit better than the alternative. After the most recent driveway encounter I got to thinking about that, and told her that she should count my shots and not engage anything on my side of the car until my .357 is empty or I'm disabled.

[Skiprr]

I can think of very few instances where I'd arm someone else to help me. Regardless of the circumstances, that person would have to be known to me.
A couple of examples might be;

1) I'm taking fire from multiple directions and have nowhere to run.
2) I'm seriously wounded and unable to stay in the fight.

The best reason to carry two guns though is that one may become inoperable or, even worse, lost in a scuffle.

The only number three I can think of is if you find yourself absolutely positively needing to clear a structure. But then the extra friendly shooter is only of use if he or she is trained in team tactics. And if you both have been to Thunder Ranch's shoot house multiple times, it begs the question of why the other person isn'y adequately armed to start with.

I agree with SRVA: this sounds kinda like a solution looking for a problem.

[kw5kw]

I'm thinking of a scenario of say a bank robbery:

3 or 4 BG's enter bank and force all customers to lie down without frisking them (they just assume all people are un-armed) the LEO's arrive and it becomes a hostage situation. Gently giving a BUG to your next-floor neighbor might be a way to defuse the situation IF the opportunity presents itself.