Applications spike for Texas concealed handgun permits

[snscott]

To bring this thread more back on topic...

The state is taking a month longer than the 60 days allowed by law to process original applications, the newspaper reported. Renewals are going 80 days past the mandated 45-day period.

Can someone explain what good it is to have a law like this when the DPS can apparently ignore it with no consequences whatsoever? I think it is great more people are getting their CHL's, but my point here is what is the value of a law like this and why isn't anyone held responsible for the law being broken and not only that, but the DPS openly admits they are doing it?

What is the penalty for them missing the "mandated" time period?

[Liberty]

To bring this thread more back on topic...

The state is taking a month longer than the 60 days allowed by law to process original applications, the newspaper reported. Renewals are going 80 days past the mandated 45-day period.

Can someone explain what good it is to have a law like this when the DPS can apparently ignore it with no consequences whatsoever? I think it is great more people are getting their CHL's, but my point here is what is the value of a law like this and why isn't anyone held responsible for the law being broken and not only that, but the DPS openly admits they are doing it?

What is the penalty for them missing the "mandated" time period?

The law does a lot of good. Even if we don't get the pleasure of seeing some DPS managers tossed into the jail. The reality is that the law sets a guideline. When they fail to keep to the guidelines flags are raised and the press writes stories, special interests start calling their legislators and the situation gets fixed. Its called politics. and it tends to work even if not particularly graceful.

[snscott]

The reality is that the law sets a guideline

OK, so which is it, a LAW or a guideline? I thought it was LAW - but it is obviously not enforced. I suppose it would take someone suing the DPS for a late response before anyone would be held accountable - and I seriously doubt it even then. So, why even bother to specify a time limit?

[Liberty]

The reality is that the law sets a guideline

OK, so which is it, a LAW or a guideline? I thought it was LAW - but it is obviously not enforced. I suppose it would take someone suing the DPS for a late response before anyone would be held accountable - and I seriously doubt it even then. So, why even bother to specify a time limit?

Its a law without penalties. Most laws that are written for government agencies have no penalties. Remember DPS can't just hire people willy nilly. Any new hiring has to be done through the budgetary process and that has to be approved by the legislature every 2 years.

I thought i explained why the time limit was set in the law, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear enough to be understood. But I know I as a taxpayer wouldn't be happy paying off suits because DPS didn't have enough money due to an unprecedented increase in applications. Defendiing these suits would cost resources that could be better spent. processing applications.

Maybe we can lock up the clerks in jails over the weekend for not performing efficiently enough, or we can make them all take Fridays off without pay as punishment. I personally like the idea of making them all listen to a a bunch of frustrated applicants screaming at them over the phone for 2 hours a day.

[snscott]

Most laws that are written for government agencies have no penalties

Then what is the point?

It is not a "law" if there are absolutely no repercussions from not obeying it.

But I know I as a taxpayer wouldn't be happy paying off suits because DPS didn't have enough money due to an unprecedented increase in applications. Defendiing these suits would cost resources that could be better spent. processing applications

Well, then I submit that it should not be a "law" if we're not going to enforce it. Can I just ignore some laws because they are inconvenient to me? Absolutely NOT.

I've worked for the State before - I know it often is not a matter of "needing to hire more people", it is a matter of being inefficient with the people and systems you have. For example, when I worked for a State Hospital, there were only 8 of them in the whole state and they had 8 different ways of doing everything they all did in common.

The DPS should not hold ME accountable and ticket me for not following "speed guidelines" - how does that sound?

[anygunanywhere]

Most laws that are written for government agencies have no penalties

Then what is the point?

It is not a "law" if there are absolutely no repercussions from not obeying it.

But I know I as a taxpayer wouldn't be happy paying off suits because DPS didn't have enough money due to an unprecedented increase in applications. Defendiing these suits would cost resources that could be better spent. processing applications

Well, then I submit that it should not be a "law" if we're not going to enforce it. Can I just ignore some laws because they are inconvenient to me? Absolutely NOT.

I've worked for the State before - I know it often is not a matter of "needing to hire more people", it is a matter of being inefficient with the people and systems you have. For example, when I worked for a State Hospital, there were only 8 of them in the whole state and they had 8 different ways of doing everything they all did in common.

The DPS should not hold ME accountable and ticket me for not following "speed guidelines" - how does that sound?

Not to go too far OT but governments posting government buildings 30.06 has no penalty either.

I would vigorously support penalties for such laws.

Anygunanywhere

[Liberty]

Most laws that are written for government agencies have no penalties

Then what is the point?

It is not a "law" if there are absolutely no repercussions from not obeying it.

I don't think you understand how the law is created? A bill when passed by the house and senate, then gets passed onto the Governor If he signs it or ignores it it then becomes law. It might be meaningless law, but it is law all the same.

But I know I as a taxpayer wouldn't be happy paying off suits because DPS didn't have enough money due to an unprecedented increase in applications. Defendiing these suits would cost resources that could be better spent. processing applications

Well, then I submit that it should not be a "law" if we're not going to enforce it. Can I just ignore some laws because they are inconvenient to me? Absolutely NOT.

I've worked for the State before - I know it often is not a matter of "needing to hire more people", it is a matter of being inefficient with the people and systems you have. For example, when I worked for a State Hospital, there were only 8 of them in the whole state and they had 8 different ways of doing everything they all did in common.

Just because the state medical field is a bunch of inefficient bureaucrats doesn't mean all state agencys are.
There are some businesses that the government probably shouldn't be involved in. Medical care might be one of them.

Those that have followed this forum for any length of time understand that there are a bunch of very hard working dedicated people in the the CHL group of DPS. The investigation is manually done by local DPS officers who research the courts themselves. A 40 percent unforseen increase in the applications would put a strain on any agency. A state agency has no means of increasing staff on short notice.

About 2 years ago the CHL office was getting behind in the applications. slowly they were catching up. About a year to 6 months ago they were turning most of the new applications in about 30 to 45 days. Since then the political races have ramped up and folks started to realize that we have no friends in the presidential race and darn few in Congress. There is a new awareness that there are people that want to take away our second amendment rights that has created this 40% surge in applications.

The DPS should not hold ME accountable and ticket me for not following "speed guidelines" - how does that sound?

Actually there are speed guidelines and we are not held accountable for them. See regulatory and advisory signs.

[Liberty]

Not to go too far OT but governments posting government buildings 30.06 has no penalty either.

I would vigorously support penalties for such laws.

Anygunanywhere

I understand your sentiment, but wo is it that actually pays thoise penelties? Maybe if they actually put jail time to this miscreants that actually ordered those signs? but fining a government agency probably isn't the answer.

[snscott]

a bunch of very hard working dedicated people in the the CHL group of DPS

I am not saying that they are anything but hard working. I just know from experience that even though you have a dedicated group of employees - if the SYSTEM they are forced to use or follow is inefficient then that just means they have to work even harder than they should have to in order to keep up.

When they fail to keep to the guidelines flags are raised and the press writes stories, special interests start calling their legislators and the situation gets fixed. Its called politics. and it tends to work even if not particularly graceful.

So the true purpose of this "law", which has no defined or enforced penalties, is just so someone can complain to the media or a congressman and the issue might get fixed in a couple of years? Under what "threat of action or penalty" is the agency then forced to "fix" the problem? When I worked for the State Hospital, I can assure you that we had to follow laws regarding the care and treatment of patients in our facility - we could not have gotten away with just blowing them off as "unenforced guidelines for a government agency". People got fired for breaking laws - yes, government employees got fired. I'm sorry if you don't like or disagree with that, but that is the purpose of LAWS - to penalize those who break them. In the corporate world where I am now, if this happened and was not addressed immediately, the CEO would GET FIRED. I've seen it more than once.

In this case, the LAW states a specific time frame during which the agency MUST complete the process. I suggest that the agency needs to do whatever it needs to do and write it off to "complying with State Law".

Actually there are speed guidelines and we are not held accountable for them. See regulatory and advisory signs.

I'm talking about those black and white "speed limit" signs I pass on the way to work. I guarantee you they are enforced and are not "guidelines". I'm only asking for everyone to be held to the same rules and standards. Anyone who breaks the LAW, should pay a penalty. How can you argue against that?

Maybe during the next legislature, if this demand continues and politics works as you say, the DPS can get a bill introduced to increase their time limit - but until that happens, I say they should be upholding the LAW - just like every other law-abiding citizen and agency is expected to do (under penalty of fines or jail and/or firings).

[Charles L. Cotton]

I owe briankey an apology. I'm not trying to start a discussion on illegal immigration in violation of the forum rules, but KHOU Ch. 11 TV news had a report last night about illegal alien crime in Houston. The report was on a fugitive "round-up" and it included a statement that there are 38,000 warrants for fugitive illegal aliens in Houston alone! The crimes for which they are wanted are not their illegal entry into the U.S., but other crimes and most of them were violent crimes. The report mentioned MS13 and other gangs and it also mentioned the countries from which these people came; i.e. Mexico, Guatemala, and other South American countries.

Again, I'm not trying to start a discussion on illegal immigration, but I posted a warning after briankey's post, so it's only fair that I acknowledge that he was correct when he stated that increased CHL applications are in part the result of increased crime by illegal aliens -- at least in the Houston area.

Sorry briankey,
Chas.

[anygunanywhere]

Not to go too far OT but governments posting government buildings 30.06 has no penalty either.

I would vigorously support penalties for such laws.

Anygunanywhere

I understand your sentiment, but wo is it that actually pays thoise penelties? Maybe if they actually put jail time to this miscreants that actually ordered those signs? but fining a government agency probably isn't the answer.

Ummmm...Let's see.....I believe there are individuals who seek and obtain election to the councils that are responsible for these governments. When I was the manager of a chemical facility I was liable to arrest and prosecution for environmental incidents in my facility under state and federal statutes. Legislating criminal/civil penalties for violating these laws could be done and would send a loud message that infringing on rights will no longer be tolerated.

Anygunanywhere

[boomerang]

Maybe change the law so people get a refund if DPS doesn't issue on time. Like 90 days or it's free!

[Briankey]

NO Apology Necessary Charles. But I do appreciate you offering it.

Take Care
Brian


--------------------

[quote="Charles L. Cotton"]I owe briankey an apology.

[Glock 23]

I think increased applications are a good sign especially if we have increases after the car carry law passed!

I figure it barely evens the odds - all BG's got guns, so its good to see the GG's react to that fact.

[Rayden]

Well talking about being frustrated, I sent in my completed application on March 24 and as of today my online status indicator still states "Packet mailed to applicant." Seems like they haven't started processing it. The way it's going, summer will be over before I may even think about carrying.