I had to draw last week. Looking for input

[Stupid]

the first week I arrived in Texas, heard on the radio, a guy was shot to death due to an argument with another motor vehicle operator in front of his house; sadly the guy's dad dead the same way in another road rage two weeks earlier.

couple weeks later, some guy driving a beat-up car purposely blocked my exits multiple times and blocked me from passing him for god-knows-what - well i just started to get used to driving in Texas. Unfortunately I had no cell phone nor firearm with me. He finally drove off on one of the exits, luckily after about 5 minutes.

[srothstein]

Asleep,

I like the way you were smart enough to call the police and tell them what happened. I also like the way you obeyed the dispatcher in unloading, even without any real requirement to do so. This probably helped convince the officer you were a good guy when he got there.

But the real proof you did the right thing was that the officer who handled the call agreed and let you go. If you had been wrong in any way, he would have let you know. If it was minor things, he would have just talked with you and told you what you should do. If it was something major, he would have handled it appropriately. The fact that he agreed is the most convincing since you were still on adrenaline at the time and probably did not tell the story quite the same way as you did here. It is amazing how the adrenaline dump can alter some of the adjectives and adverbs we use.

[asleepatthereel]

Any reason why you couldn't just drive away when he got out of his car? He might have chased you but he might not have. I suppose pulling over is better than getting run over.

I wish I could draw a picture to show how we had stopped, but I was about 2 feet from the curb, and he was kind of cross parked in front of me at an angle. I would have had to push the bike back about 6 feet before I could have gotten away. In other words, he was about at a 45 degree angle to me with me at the point between the car and the curb with nowhere to go.

[asleepatthereel]

I think you did the right thing. Especially by calling the police. He who calls first usually wins.

I do have one small thing to correct, but it has no bearing on whether you did right or wrong. Jails are not statutorily off limits to CHL holders. Prisons are, but not jails. And Police Stations, if they are to disarm you, must provide storage, IIRC. Just for future reference, because I think calling was the wiser choice than riding there for time's sake.

Yeah, I didnt recall the statute verbatum and didnt want to take the chance. Didnt think of the time factor though. Good observation.

[asleepatthereel]

Another thing you might want to start doing is building up a habit of noticing license plates. Every time you see a car, read the plate to yourself before you look for other details. It will become second nature, and you'll have a pretty good chance of being able to give a partial plate even if the situation distracts you like this one.

Of course, it can get a bit too ingrained; sometimes I'll notice plate number, but not color, make/model/year, etc. You might also look into a cheap digital camcorder and a mount for your bike; it can get some really cool videos anyway, and with audio recording too, it can be a pretty good witness in a situation like this.

I honestly never got a chance to see the plate until he was leaving, and then it for such a short period of time, I dont even remember any of it. He was behind me most of the time, and kind of caddycornered to me when we were stopped.

Good advise though. Ill try to start noting such things.

[G.A. Heath]

Last week I was coming home from work on my motorcycle at about 0300 on a dark road where they are doing alot of roadwork. The speed limit on this road is 45, but changes to 35 at the city limits, and the local PD make a point of frequenting the area looking for speeders. So Im driving 45 and there is another vehicle about 30 yards behind me. When we got to the spot where it slows to 35, this vehicle gets very close to my bike, and flashes the high beams and lays on the horn. Thinking the person was driving was having a bad night or something, I pull as far to the right as I can. This is a two lane road that will eventually be a divided four lane. I pulled to the right thinking he would just go around me as we were the only two vehicles on the road. Instead, he gets closer and continues the flashing and horn blowing. I was about to just speed up when he started to go around me. When he got beside of me, he started to come over toward me forcing me to slow down. Before I knew it, he had pulled in front of me, and stopped forcing me to do the same. I dont remember drawing my Kimber, but when he exited the car, that was the first thing he saw. I do remember yelling at him to stop and get back in the vehicle. The way we were stopped, I could see inside the car from his dome light. The guy said something about me getting a faster motorcycle or something to that effect, got back in the car and litterally smoked the tires leaving. At this point, the adrenaline started flowing as I started to realize what had just transpired. I wasnt far from the police station, and started to go there to report the incident, then remembered they have a jail there and CHL holders are barred from entering. Having nowhere to safely store my .45, I pulled into a well lit parking lot and called them to have an officer come to me. The officer was very supportive, even though I didnt have any real info on the perp other than he was a well dressed white male in a large white foreign luxury car like a Lexus or BMW. The dispatcher asked that I unload the weapon before the officer arrived, so I did. He asked to see it and remarked that he had always wanted an Ultra Carry like mine. In all the experience with the officer went very well, and he even let me load the weapon back and reholster as he stood there. This is the first time I have ever had to draw my weapon on anyone, and I am very glad I didnt have to pull the trigger.
I do practice at home with snap caps drawing and turning off the safety. I think my Instructor called it 'muscle memory' or something to that effect, and I can ensure you that it does work. I had the weapon out safety off and ready to use had the need arisen.
I dont think the whole time from the time we stopped to the time he left was more than 15 seconds, but it seemed like an hour, so time seems to slow down too.
I do amit I briefly considered not reporting it, but then what would have happened if the perp had called the police and told them a crazy biker had just pulled a gun on him and he had my plate numbers. Besides, I have too much invested in my plastic to risk it.
OK, Im open to critique, so if anyone would have done the same or different in my situation, fill me in.

Being prepared when the aggressor stepped out of the vehicle was the smart move. If he stepped out with a gun and you were not prepared your life could have ended there. As for the idea of fleeing upon seeing the aggressor's empty hands once he was out of the vehicle the OP made a smart decision not to as he would have had to holster his weapon (this could allow the aggressor to draw his own if he was carrying) and then flee putting his back to an aggressor who could potentially be retrieving a long gun from the trunk of his vehicle or drawing a concealed firearm of his own. As for disarming prior to the officer arriving, that was a tactical and legal mistake in my opinion. Your aggressor could now be looking for you along with some armed buddies, while someone passing by could see you unloading your weapon and call the police in regards to a "crazy biker with a gun" and end up with you being charged with failure to conceal. The ideal solution would be to advise the dispatcher that for legal reasons and your own safety you can not unload the weapon but tell them where the weapon is located and that will keep your hands on the handle bars of the bike until the officer arrives and tells you otherwise.

overall the situation worked out very well in the end without any apparent legal or health issues so in review it was the best solution for that situation.

[asleepatthereel]

I truly commend you, I think you acting accordingly to the situation you had in front of you.

My only hope is I can act as Kewl' as you did, If the occasion ever arose for me to draw.

Thanks for your addition to the forum.

Funny thing is, it was kind of like being on auto pilot while it was happening. Everything went just like I had rehearsed it with the exception of actually pulling the trigger. It wasnt until sometime afterward when the adrenaline rush happened. Thanks for the input yall. Im very happy that I didnt need to actually fire on the guy, even if I had every right too. The last thing we all want to do is to be forced into a situation where we have to take someones life, but its good to know that should the need arise, the training that I hope we all do, will pay off.

[asleepatthereel]

Last week I was coming home from work on my motorcycle at about 0300 on a dark road where they are doing alot of roadwork. The speed limit on this road is 45, but changes to 35 at the city limits, and the local PD make a point of frequenting the area looking for speeders. So Im driving 45 and there is another vehicle about 30 yards behind me. When we got to the spot where it slows to 35, this vehicle gets very close to my bike, and flashes the high beams and lays on the horn. Thinking the person was driving was having a bad night or something, I pull as far to the right as I can. This is a two lane road that will eventually be a divided four lane. I pulled to the right thinking he would just go around me as we were the only two vehicles on the road. Instead, he gets closer and continues the flashing and horn blowing. I was about to just speed up when he started to go around me. When he got beside of me, he started to come over toward me forcing me to slow down. Before I knew it, he had pulled in front of me, and stopped forcing me to do the same. I dont remember drawing my Kimber, but when he exited the car, that was the first thing he saw. I do remember yelling at him to stop and get back in the vehicle. The way we were stopped, I could see inside the car from his dome light. The guy said something about me getting a faster motorcycle or something to that effect, got back in the car and litterally smoked the tires leaving. At this point, the adrenaline started flowing as I started to realize what had just transpired. I wasnt far from the police station, and started to go there to report the incident, then remembered they have a jail there and CHL holders are barred from entering. Having nowhere to safely store my .45, I pulled into a well lit parking lot and called them to have an officer come to me. The officer was very supportive, even though I didnt have any real info on the perp other than he was a well dressed white male in a large white foreign luxury car like a Lexus or BMW. The dispatcher asked that I unload the weapon before the officer arrived, so I did. He asked to see it and remarked that he had always wanted an Ultra Carry like mine. In all the experience with the officer went very well, and he even let me load the weapon back and reholster as he stood there. This is the first time I have ever had to draw my weapon on anyone, and I am very glad I didnt have to pull the trigger.
I do practice at home with snap caps drawing and turning off the safety. I think my Instructor called it 'muscle memory' or something to that effect, and I can ensure you that it does work. I had the weapon out safety off and ready to use had the need arisen.
I dont think the whole time from the time we stopped to the time he left was more than 15 seconds, but it seemed like an hour, so time seems to slow down too.
I do amit I briefly considered not reporting it, but then what would have happened if the perp had called the police and told them a crazy biker had just pulled a gun on him and he had my plate numbers. Besides, I have too much invested in my plastic to risk it.
OK, Im open to critique, so if anyone would have done the same or different in my situation, fill me in.

Being prepared when the aggressor stepped out of the vehicle was the smart move. If he stepped out with a gun and you were not prepared your life could have ended there. As for the idea of fleeing upon seeing the aggressor's empty hands once he was out of the vehicle the OP made a smart decision not to as he would have had to holster his weapon (this could allow the aggressor to draw his own if he was carrying) and then flee putting his back to an aggressor who could potentially be retrieving a long gun from the trunk of his vehicle or drawing a concealed firearm of his own. As for disarming prior to the officer arriving, that was a tactical and legal mistake in my opinion. Your aggressor could now be looking for you along with some armed buddies, while someone passing by could see you unloading your weapon and call the police in regards to a "crazy biker with a gun" and end up with you being charged with failure to conceal. The ideal solution would be to advise the dispatcher that for legal reasons and your own safety you can not unload the weapon but tell them where the weapon is located and that will keep your hands on the handle bars of the bike until the officer arrives and tells you otherwise.

overall the situation worked out very well in the end without any apparent legal or health issues so in review it was the best solution for that situation.

I agree with what you said about disarming, but the dispatcher said for me to do it and also wanted me to stay on the line with her until the officer arrived. Thinking back, what if the officer had seen me handling my weapon when he arrived and the dispatcher forgot to tell him? I did duck behind some bushes or something to keep it out of sight while I unloaded it. Another good observation. Thanks.

[Wildscar]

I wish I could draw a picture to show how we had stopped, but I was about 2 feet from the curb, and he was kind of cross parked in front of me at an angle. I would have had to push the bike back about 6 feet before I could have gotten away. In other words, he was about at a 45 degree angle to me with me at the point between the car and the curb with nowhere to go.

You mean something like this. Or at least this is how I have it in my head. Am I close?

but its good to know that should the need arise, the training that I hope we all do, will pay off.

And knowing is half the battle.

[asleepatthereel]

Very close. I was more toward the front of the vehicle though. I could see inside it with the dome light on, but not enough to see if he was holding a weapon or not. Also, there was a curb that Im guessing was at least 10-12" high, so trying to jump my Sportster over it wasnt an option.

Of course, if that thing in the picture was the perps vehicle, Id have certainly tried!

[KD5NRH]

That open cab just begs for a grenade...

[Excaliber]

IANAL, but given the scenario you describe I believe you were justified in drawing.

Driving off in that scenario could have put you at even more risk had he decided to chase you down for some reason.

Allowing him to close the distance between you without a response from you would have been bad news. He had already firmly established his stance as the aggressor.

There are those that say that you should not draw your weapon until you're justified in shooting/using it. I think i've even said that in the past and believe in the general principle of that idea, but this is a good example of where DF wasn't CLEARLY justified but simple force (drawing the weapon) certainly was. Just goes to show that life isn't always black and white.

good job imo.

Forcing the bike off to the curb with a full size vehicle was a very dangerous maneuver and certainly placed the OP in extreme jeopardy. The fact that the driver then exited his vehicle and approached the OP confirmed additional aggressive intent, but the extent of the intended aggression (verbal / physical force / deadly force) was unclear and the aggressor's ability to deliver deadly force once he had exited his vehicle was not clearly established by the facts as provided. It worked out well for everyone that the aggressor had enough working brain cells left to back off before the OP was forced to make a fire / don't fire decision at close range.
Immediately calling the police was definitely the right thing to do to establish the OP as the good guy and the other driver as the aggressor.

After reading the clarifications on vehicle positioning and the input from other bike riders (which I am not) I agree that asleepatthereel made the best available decision under the circumstances by drawing, even though it is arguable whether or not actual use of DF would have been justified at that point. It's another one of those murky situations (like the ATM situation in another recent post) that gives us a terrific opportunity to explore and critique options and improve our own decision making for the future.

This incident was very well handled under extremely challenging circumstances - kudos to asleepatthereel for keeping his cool, thinking his way through changing situation, making good decisions, and acting on them.

[tallmike]

Judging from the picture, you were extremely outgunned. =)

[Wildscar]

Very close. I was more toward the front of the vehicle though. I could see inside it with the dome light on, but not enough to see if he was holding a weapon or not. Also, there was a curb that Im guessing was at least 10-12" high, so trying to jump my Sportster over it wasnt an option.

Of course, if that thing in the picture was the perps vehicle, Id have certainly tried!

I dont blame you one bit. and The images was the best I could do on short notice. Those G.I. Joe images where the only ones i could frind with a top view. And they are not even to scale either. The bike would have even smaller than shown. Also if you where to jump the curb and hit grass that would have been bad too. Street bikes dont like the grass when they are equipeped with street tires. I know poeple would argue that they did it in Mission Impossiable 2. But then I have them watch it again and pay close attention to the tires. If you notice they change depending on what terrain they on. Gotta love Hollywood.

I think this guy was having a bad day and just want to take it out on the first person that he came across. It just happen to be you. Only thing that sucks now is that he might be watching for you and now you are going to have to watch traffic even closer now.

[Keith B]

....Only thing now is that he might be watching for you and now you are going to have to watch traffic even closer now.

Or, he could be saying, 'I ain't gonna road rage again, I could've gotten shot!!'