Help on CHL -8 Completion

[kg5ie]

Need a little help on proper completion of a CHL-8. In the past I have had folks fail the shooting proficiency, but pass on the second attempt - same day. That CHL-8 was easy.

Yesterday I had a lady fail and elected not to do another attempt the same day. She had run a sewing machine needle through a finger twice. The finger was very sore and the recoil of the gun was causing a lot of pain.....any way....this is my question.

Today I will fill out the CHL-8. Obviously she gets a Pass - Fail

She plans to do her second attempt in a week or two. When I do the second CHL-8 (assuming she passes), do I do a completely separate one for the date she attempts and put ONLY the pass for the shooting proficiency for her and nothing for the classroom, and NA for the classroom, or what?



I'm sure others have had this before. Need some instruction.....

Thanks,

Bill

[dogflight]

I believe she gets three attempts before she actually "fails" the proficiency exam - they don't all have to be on the same day. So, another option might be to hold off on the CHL-8 (and the bottom part of the CHL-100) until she qualifies in a week or two.

Otherwise, if you've already given her a CHL-100 and submitted a CHL-8, I think what you've said is fine: once she qualifies, just complete a second CHL-8 (checking only Pass under Proficiency) and a second CHL-100 (bottom part only) as if you've never seen her before.

Hope this helps.

[Mike S]

Need a little help on proper completion of a CHL-8. In the past I have had folks fail the shooting proficiency, but pass on the second attempt - same day. That CHL-8 was easy.

Yesterday I had a lady fail and elected not to do another attempt the same day. She had run a sewing machine needle through a finger twice. The finger was very sore and the recoil of the gun was causing a lot of pain.....any way....this is my question.

Today I will fill out the CHL-8. Obviously she gets a Pass - Fail

She plans to do her second attempt in a week or two. When I do the second CHL-8 (assuming she passes), do I do a completely separate one for the date she attempts and put ONLY the pass for the shooting proficiency for her and nothing for the classroom, and NA for the classroom, or what?



I'm sure others have had this before. Need some instruction.....

Thanks,

Bill

Bill,
I typically give my CHL Classes over a two day period, with the Written Exam at the end of the first day (Private Lessons with lots of hands on, as that's what my clients typically prefer). When I submit my CHL-8's, I submit two separate ones; one for the Written Exam with that date at the bottom to certify it was completed that date, & a second one with the date of the Proficiency Exam. For this type of class each CHL-8 only has one 'X' on it, either PASS/FAIL for whatever activity was conducted that day (Written or Proficiency). The remaining columns are left blank, however if you choose to place an 'N/A' or line thru them it should not be an issue.

Since you are certifying what activity was completed on a certain date, I would suggest that you annotate Pass on the Written AND Fail on the Proficiency, and when she conducts the Proficiency again and passes it just submit a new CHL-8 only for the Proficiency portion.

As was already mentioned, there are three attempts allowed for both the Written & Proficiency Exams. I've never had a client Fail either one, however if they were to require a re-test and pass on the same day there's not a mechanism or requirement for reporting multiple attempts. If she would have re-tested on the same day & met the standard the CHL-8 would just reflect PASS.

As far as her CHL-100 goes, if you issued it to her that day I would suggest only filling out the Classroom portion that she passed since she has indicated she will return to you for her re-test. (If you have already given it to her, no harm or foul.) When she returns and is able to pass the Proficiency Exam, you can issue her a new one with the date she completed the Classroom portion at the top signature block, & the date she completed/Passed the Proficiency Exam at your second signature block.

Remember, you're certifying to the DPS that a certain activity was completed on that date, & the results of that activity on both the CHL-8 & CHL-100. Keep that as your guide, & it should keep ya from getting sideways with the RSD folks.

[dogflight]

So, here's my humble opinion:

I don't think it's necessary (or helpful) to submit multiple CHL-8's for the same person(s). My reasoning follows.

First, note the name of the form: CHL-8 CERTIFICATION OF CONCEALED HANDGUN LICENSE CLASS COMPLETION.

Unless a student registers for only one section, a CHL 'class' consists of two 'sections': classroom instruction & the proficiency exam.

I will certify class completion by submitting a CHL-8 only when the 'class' is complete. Complete meaning that the student has either, a) passed (one or both sections) and received a CHL-100, or, b) has failed both sections.

Thus, if a 'class' is spread over multiple days, my single CHL-8 is dated the date the 'class' is complete and I issue CHL-100's. CHL-100's are dated accordingly as each 'section' is completed.

If a student needs additional training before reattempting either 'portion', I put them on a different CHL-8 dated the date their class was completed and I issued their CHL-100.

Again, this is the way I do it. I'm not saying it's the only way, or even that it's correct.

[Charles L. Cotton]

This is my opinion, not an official answer from DPS.

DPS requires us to submit a CHL-8 for every completed class within 5 days of the class. (I submit mine on the day of the class.) The class is "completed" when we are through teaching, not when someone passes both parts of the course. The CHL-8 form has a Pass/Fail block for both the classroom and range portion of the course, so it's clear that DPS wants the form even if one or more students fail either portion of the course.

I've never had a student fail to pass both portions of the class in the same day, although I've had people that had to shoot the range portion twice. If I ever face the OP's scenario, then I'll submit the student's name on the CHL-8 showing they passed the classroom portion of the course, but failed the range portion. Then, if they come back to me and pass the range portion, I'll submit the CHL-8 with their name showing "N/A" for the classroom portion, and "Passed" for the range portion.

I think we must submit the CHL-8 with their name because 1) DPS wants it;2) we have to give them a CHL-100 showing they passed the classroom portion of the course and 3) they could go to another instructor to pass the range portion. If we don't submit their name on our CHL-8, then DPS would have a CHL-100 from us for the classroom portion of the class, but no corresponding CHL-8. That would cause the instructor a problem.

Chas.

[dogflight]

All great points, Charles. Thanks for your input. Everything you said is reasonable.

I've never had anyone fail the classroom portion, but I have always applied the following reasoning to multi-day classes, range weather delays, or a student who needs a little practice/training before using up all three cracks at the proficiency exam:

IMHO, when a student signs up for a "CHL Class" but happens to take the classroom portion on Wednesday, and we do the shooting on Saturday, the class is certifiably complete when the shooting's done. Since I never issue a CHL-100 without the student's name being submitted on a CHL-8, doing this on Wednesday and turning around and doing it again on Saturday would seem unnecessarily redundant - to me, to the student, and, I would think, to DPS.

Doubtless, my reasoning is flawed. Oh, well. Not the first time (or, alas, the last time) that "my humble opinion" is out of sync with the experts!

[Charles L. Cotton]

All great points, Charles. Thanks for your input. Everything you said is reasonable.

I've never had anyone fail the classroom portion, but I have always applied the following reasoning to multi-day classes, range weather delays, or a student who needs a little practice/training before using up all three cracks at the proficiency exam:

IMHO, when a student signs up for a "CHL Class" but happens to take the classroom portion on Wednesday, and we do the shooting on Saturday, the class is certifiably complete when the shooting's done. Since I never issue a CHL-100 without the student's name being submitted on a CHL-8, doing this on Wednesday and turning around and doing it again on Saturday would seem unnecessarily redundant - to me, to the student, and, I would think, to DPS.

Doubtless, my reasoning is flawed. Oh, well. Not the first time (or, alas, the last time) that "my humble opinion" is out of sync with the experts!

Since we have 5 days after a class is complete the submit the CHL-8, I think your multi-day procedure is fine. During the summer months, I offer students the option to shoot on Friday evening before the Saturday class when it's not as hot. I just put Friday's date on the range portion of the CHL-100 and Saturday's date on the classroom portion of the CHL-100 and the CHL-8.

Chas.

[switch]

If the entire class is shooting on another day, I think it is fine to wait and submit one CHL-8 after the 'class' is completed. I think you are creating extra work (and paperwork for DPS) by submitting 2 CHL-100's for one class. AFAIK, if they take the class/test on Wed and shoot on Sat, they 'completed the course on Sat. (Instruction on the range about gun safety, sight alignment, etc. is part of the course - it's just not 'tested' on the written test.) I would date both the class and the proficiency test as Saturday.

However, if only one student failed to show proficiency and planned to re-test later, I think you'd need to do a CHL-8 for that class, show her/him as passing the class and leave the proficiency column blank (they haven't failed until they fail 3 times.) In this case, her/his CHL-100 would show 2 different dates.