Carring during a school field trip?

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Mithras61
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Post by Mithras61 »

texaseyes wrote:
llwatson wrote:PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution,any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted,or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
I believe Linda has pointed this out by the above.
Unless they have "new reading comprehension" along with their "new math" I read this as being fairly clear that you can NOT take a weapon on school premises, ie: yards, parking, etc. without breaching this law.
I have also found it helpful to call whatever police agency that has jurisdiction over an area or situation in question and get a quote from them. After all, they are the ones who will be filing charges. ;-)
Someone jump in and correct me, OK? My wife and daughter say I need all of that I can get! :lol:
You have to read the whole section. PC 46.03 defines "premises" as having the same meaning as given in 46.035:
§ 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.
(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the
license holder's person:
(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or
license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic
Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its
income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for
on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic
Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;
(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate,
or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking
place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a
handgun is used in the event;
(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;
(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under
Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing
home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the
license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing
home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other
established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license
holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun
under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code,
regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a
governmental entity.
(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while
intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the
authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless
of whether the handgun is concealed.
(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer
under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security
officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the
security officer's employment, the security officer violates a
provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(f) In this section:
(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or
outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for
use by the public that is located in a county with a population of
more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface
area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is
open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has
security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not
include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or
walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry
a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.
(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a
building. The term does not include any public or private driveway,
street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area.

(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e)
is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under
Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony
of the third degree.
(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that
the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed
the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been
justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply
if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.
(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical
reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas
Alcoholic Beverage Commission.
texaseyes
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Post by texaseyes »

Again, this goes back to the old saying about "beating the wrap but not the ride".
If you were on that bench close to the Mecom Fountain in Houston, Texas our friend Rosenthal would probably file charges.
On the otherhand, if the same thing happened on the square in Crockett, Cervantes would probably dismiss it. :???:
The world is a dangerous place to live....not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it!
~~~Albert Einstein~~~
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seamusTX
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Post by seamusTX »

texaseyes wrote:If you were on that bench close to the Mecom Fountain in Houston, Texas our friend Rosenthal would probably file charges.
I think it would very much depend upon what you did to cause the police to question you.

- Jim
Wildscar
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Post by Wildscar »

So here’s a scenario for yall. My wife is in school at the moment and her professor is thinking about taking them all too some state park for some kind of nature hike or something like that. I thought it would be cool to stay the weekend and set up camp at the camp site that we are going to. (Not sure if its a state park or national yet so for the moment we shall assume that is a state park.) As long as I’m not with them on the hike and stay back at the camp would I be ok to have my firearm with me? Or am I missing something?
Wildscar
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Keith B
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Post by Keith B »

Wildscar wrote:So here’s a scenario for yall. My wife is in school at the moment and her professor is thinking about taking them all too some state park for some kind of nature hike or something like that. I thought it would be cool to stay the weekend and set up camp at the camp site that we are going to. (Not sure if its a state park or national yet so for the moment we shall assume that is a state park.) As long as I’m not with them on the hike and stay back at the camp would I be ok to have my firearm with me? Or am I missing something?
I think is cases like this, proximity will be a big player. If you are separated from them at a reasonable distance (hundreds of yards for instance), then it should not be an issue. I think a bigger factor will be the knowledge of, or better yet pre-knowledge of the activity being conducted. If you are in the immediate vicinity of the activity, and knew it, you were violating the law.

However, as always, any agency can decide to let the Judge determine the guilt if the definition of the law is gray.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

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cbr600

Post by cbr600 »

Will you be camping in "a building or a portion of a building" or outdoors?
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Keith B
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Post by Keith B »

cbr600 wrote:Will you be camping in "a building or a portion of a building" or outdoors?
PC 46.03 states 'any grounds' Buildings don't necessarily play into this one.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4
para driver
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Post by para driver »

what defines 'proximity'?? is that 5, 50, or 500 yards?
what about going to the State Fair, they have school groups there every day, but you can enter with your firearm??
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seamusTX
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Post by seamusTX »

para driver wrote:what defines 'proximity'?? is that 5, 50, or 500 yards?
Your question is unanswerable and illustrates why this is a bad law. A reasonable person should be able to read the law and decide whether a particular action violates it.

If the legislature can't remove schools from 46.03 (for political reasons), they need to make 46.03 inapplicable to CHL holders.

- Jim
texaseyes
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Post by texaseyes »

seamusTX wrote:
para driver wrote:what defines 'proximity'?? is that 5, 50, or 500 yards?
Your question is unanswerable and illustrates why this is a bad law. A reasonable person should be able to read the law and decide whether a particular action violates it.

If the legislature can't remove schools from 46.03 (for political reasons), they need to make 46.03 inapplicable to CHL holders.

- Jim
Thank you! Point made and seconded. Back up Gov. Perry. He is onboard here. :cool:
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Mithras61
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Post by Mithras61 »

Keith B wrote:
Wildscar wrote:So here’s a scenario for yall. My wife is in school at the moment and her professor is thinking about taking them all too some state park for some kind of nature hike or something like that. I thought it would be cool to stay the weekend and set up camp at the camp site that we are going to. (Not sure if its a state park or national yet so for the moment we shall assume that is a state park.) As long as I’m not with them on the hike and stay back at the camp would I be ok to have my firearm with me? Or am I missing something?
I think is cases like this, proximity will be a big player. If you are separated from them at a reasonable distance (hundreds of yards for instance), then it should not be an issue. I think a bigger factor will be the knowledge of, or better yet pre-knowledge of the activity being conducted. If you are in the immediate vicinity of the activity, and knew it, you were violating the law.

However, as always, any agency can decide to let the Judge determine the guilt if the definition of the law is gray.
I think the operative part of the law in this case is this:
Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) [amended 6/20/97] A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
(1) [amended 5/30/95] on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;
If you knew that activity was taking place, you may be liable under this section, but I suspect that unless you do something to call attention to the fact that you are carrying, you will probably get away with the violation. I'm not suggesting you do it, only that you will probably get away with it. Generally, if you or your immediate family are participating in a school-sponsored event, you know it, so "knowingly" is satisfied.
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Post by jazr45acp »

Wow! I never thought I'd get so many responses. Thats awesome! My reason for the topic in the first place was that my wife and I will be attending several of my kids field trips this coming year. I wasn't sure if I could carry since we(wife and I) wouldn't be riding in the school bus, but taking our own vehicle along and meeting the group at our final destination. Thank you so much for all of the insight and wealth of knowledge. Hope you folks have a great day. :grin:
In Christ,

Joel C.
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