FL:Jewelry Store robbery, UPS truck jacking, police chase, shoot out, 4 dead

[anygunanywhere]

Live PD drama wannabes. No cops got hurt. Officers Friendly all went home safe.

[philip964]

This occurred in Broward County. I wonder if the police in that area have been under pressure since the High School mass shooting to show that they are not cowards and will engage criminals.

But yeah follow from a far distance.

[The Annoyed Man]

This image kind of makes the point:

[philip964]

This image kind of makes the point:


12CBF797-D69F-4301-AE2D-410960F84AA2.jpeg

Are those civilians taking cover behind the car that says family with kids? The people who are standing in the middle of the street with no cover at all, and red lines coming from their positions, are they police?

[The Annoyed Man]

This image kind of makes the point:


12CBF797-D69F-4301-AE2D-410960F84AA2.jpeg

Are those civilians taking cover behind the car that says family with kids? The people who are standing in the middle of the street with no cover at all, and red lines coming from their positions, are they police?

Everyone you see in that picture standing outside of a vehicle, is a LEO who is firing on the UPS van. The red lines represent their angle of fire.

Correction, there are 2-3 officers moving to cover behind "family with kids" who are not shooting in that picture.

[Grayling813]

In addition to bad guys who were desperados, this was also a law enforcement manure show. It's not like the stolen jewelry wouldn't have been covered by insurance if not recovered, so why not just follow the van in a chopper to the bad guys' destination, and take them THERE, instead of engaging them in a massive shootout on a busy highway, resulting in the deaths of both the hostage AND an innocent bystander trapped in his car? My God, cops were using bystander cars with people inside them as cover to shoot from, so naturally the bad guys shot back in those directions. Completely inexcusable.

What a complete mongolian hair ball. There was no excuse for this.....in the face of a property crime with a hostage involved no less. I hope the police chief is happy with his officers' training. I'm sure a statement will be released absolving the dept of any of the burden of responsibility.

Yes, the bad guys were bad guys. Yes, they stole property. Yes, they took a hostage. Yes, none of this would have happened if they hadn't been violent criminals. But what ALSO DIDN'T happen was a police response that took the hostage's and the public's safety into account ahead of capture and property recovery.

I'm just fed up with this kind of stuff.

Amen

[Grayling813]

UPS said it was "deeply saddened to learn a UPS service provider was a victim of this senseless act of violence."

Wonder if UPS is referring to the robbers or the police....or both.

Our military is subjected to restrictive rules of engagement on the battlefield. It’s way past time to impose even stricter rules on US law enforcement.

[anygunanywhere]

UPS said it was "deeply saddened to learn a UPS service provider was a victim of this senseless act of violence."

Wonder if UPS is referring to the robbers or the police....or both.

Our military is subjected to restrictive rules of engagement on the battlefield. It’s way past time to impose even stricter rules on US law enforcement.

I have never thought of it that way but by golly your are absolutely correct.

[Chaparral]

Too many law enforcement officers think they are in military combat. I regularly see a group of Harris County Sheriff’s Deputies eating lunch in camouflage uniforms - why the heck do LEO’s need camo, especially in a large metropolitan area? Too much of a military mindset. I know they have a tough, dangerous, underpaying job, but protecting the innocent public should take priority over killing the bad guy, especially when other options were available to them.

[philip964]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ups-truck- ... 019-12-06/

Police tactics questions.

[TreyHouston]

This image kind of makes the point:


12CBF797-D69F-4301-AE2D-410960F84AA2.jpeg

Where is the throwing up emoji??? Horrible police response.

[The Annoyed Man]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ups-truck- ... 019-12-06/

Police tactics questions.

But Manny Orosa, who was Miami-Dade's police chief from 2011 to 2015, questions the tactic given the number of civilians and the hostage.

"If you're shooting into a truck and you don't have a clear vision of who you're shooting at, you don't just shoot at the truck," Orosa said.

It's not clear yet who fired the shots that killed the UPS driver and the innocent bystander. A complete investigation could take months, even years.

That’s just some straight up cow pattie. YEARS?

[srothstein]

That’s just some straight up cow pattie. YEARS?

You are correct, but they are also telling a partial truth. The complete investigation can take years. But telling who fired which rounds does not require a complete investigation and should take no more than a few days, possibly a couple weeks.

I am figuring that it is possible, not likely but possible, that the bad guys were using the same caliber and ammo as the police. One little known fact is that the bad guys prefer to use the same weapons the police do. This is because, like many gun people, they figure the police know what they are doing and make the simple choice to follow their lead. So it is possible. Also, most fired bullets do not retain their shape well enough to do ballistic tests, so it makes it harder than it looks like on TV.

If we had a perfect case, the bad guys are firing a different caliber gun than the police. Then it takes just until the autopsy is done to determine the beginning point of cops or bad guys. If the bullets have enough undamaged area left for ballistics testing, then a day or two to fire sample bullets from the officers guns and make the comparisons. Worst case is same bullet types and calibers and no ballistics testing. Then it takes a few weeks to do the reconstruction of the event and make the same decisions.

And I figure a few weeks more to nail down which person fired each shot. Max of two or three months to get it identified for what we want to know.

[Excaliber]

Too many law enforcement officers think they are in military combat. I regularly see a group of Harris County Sheriff’s Deputies eating lunch in camouflage uniforms - why the heck do LEO’s need camo, especially in a large metropolitan area? Too much of a military mindset. I know they have a tough, dangerous, underpaying job, but protecting the innocent public should take priority over killing the bad guy, especially when other options were available to them.

Those guys you see in camo are SWAT officers.

Their duties often involve situations where camo is not just appropriate but necessary to remain unseen as long as possible.

[03Lightningrocks]

Too many law enforcement officers think they are in military combat. I regularly see a group of Harris County Sheriff’s Deputies eating lunch in camouflage uniforms - why the heck do LEO’s need camo, especially in a large metropolitan area? Too much of a military mindset. I know they have a tough, dangerous, underpaying job, but protecting the innocent public should take priority over killing the bad guy, especially when other options were available to them.

Those guys you see in camo are SWAT officers.

Their duties often involve situations where camo is not just appropriate but necessary to remain unseen as long as possible.

Considering that most SWAT situations are in urban environments, why is the camo not in the shape and color of houses?