And you thought you had days go from bad to worse...

[HighVelocity]

It all comes down to what Mr Frosch "perceived" as a threat. I am waiting to see what the Grand Jury says but I have a feeling they'll no-bill Mr Frosch.

[ScubaSigGuy]

It all comes down to what Mr Frosch "perceived" as a threat. I am waiting to see what the Grand Jury says but I have a feeling they'll no-bill Mr Frosch.

Based on the 911 call I tend to agree. I am not saying he did the right thing, or that I would have acted that way, but an elderly couple is going to perceive a threat much differently than I. Without that call to prove what they were thinking at the time it might be a totally different story IMO.

[dukalmighty]

I personally do not think I woud of fired under those circumstances,te report did say that evidence did show he was within 2-3 feet of the window,not a smart move at night.I do agree that this type of shooting can cast a black cloud on our rights to defend ourselves/property,I also believe that most laws state what a reasonable prudent person would do under the same circumctances if I remmber correctly an episode of COPS where an elderly lady reported a noise in her backyard when the cops showed up and started looking around the backyardshe came to the door with a dirty harry special LOL.The cop asked if it was loaded she said yep and that she had fired a shot at the noise ,cop looked and yep bullet hole in garage,the officer took her revolver asked if she had more bullets and reloaded it then handed it back to her and told her not to just be shooting at noises that she needed to make sure that whoever it was was there to harm her .Yes I believe it was in Texas

[seamusTX]

It is scary how many people think it is legal to shoot trespassers. I've asked people to show me where that is in the penal code, and of course they can't.

- Jim

[LarryH]

A moment of perspective, if I may:

Drunk drivers kill MANY more people than firearms, but you don't see Ted Kennedy orating against drunk drivers.

[seamusTX]

Very true. And the people killed and injured by drunk drivers are totally innocent. Many if not most people who are shot asked for it (either by attacking someone or involvement in crimes like drug dealing).

- Jim

[Venus Pax]

Castle doctrine or no castle doctrine, there is no justification for putting a bullet in someone who just happens to be in your yard outside your window. There are all sorts of begnin, albeit not very smart, reasons why someone could be there. We see one in this case.

People even innocently walk into the wrong house. Someone could be drunk and got a ride home and was dropped off in front of your house instead of his three doors down. It is the homeowner's duty to attempt to ascertain why that person is there and if he poses any threat.

No one "innocently" walks into a house, especially if the doors are locked. Drunk people can commit violent acts just as much as sober ones can. Often, they will use the "but I was drunk" excuse--I'm rather tired of hearing it. If you're drunk and wander into someone's house and get shot, that's your fault. Allowing a chemical to takeover your mental faculties is irresponsible, and you cannot expect others to be responsible for your behavior.

I agree that Mr. Frosch shot a little too soon, but I get the idea that he is being blamed for Ms. Nall's death. The drunk driver is at fault for Ms. Nall's death. The drunk driver chose to get on the road after having too many drinks, and because of that, a sixteen-year-old boy just lost his mother.
Mr. Frosch saw two males on his porch, two to three feet from his window. Were they there for iced tea? I think not.

I can sympathize with the boys. Based on the article alone, it doesn't seem like they meant any harm. Kids do stupid things, and this is an unfortunate consequence of more than one person not thinking before acting.

It's a shame so much tragedy stemmed from checking out a party.

[thejtrain]

No one "innocently" walks into a house, especially if the doors are locked. Drunk people can commit violent acts just as much as sober ones can. Often, they will use the "but I was drunk" excuse--I'm rather tired of hearing it. If you're drunk and wander into someone's house and get shot, that's your fault. Allowing a chemical to takeover your mental faculties is irresponsible, and you cannot expect others to be responsible for your behavior.

I agree that Mr. Frosch shot a little too soon, but I get the idea that he is being blamed for Ms. Nall's death. The drunk driver is at fault for Ms. Nall's death. The drunk driver chose to get on the road after having too many drinks, and because of that, a sixteen-year-old boy just lost his mother.

I'm with you on the personal responsibility stuff, Venus, wholeheartedly. But I must admit, there's some niggling doubt in my head as to what went on with the driver. At the risk of overquoting Jim, until we know everything and the outcome of it all we won't be sure, but here are the two relevant quotes from that one article that we have:

A man who had been drinking drove his vehicle into her lane, striking her head-on, police said.
...
Agustin Renteria, 27, of Kaufman was driving the 1996 Ford that hit Ms. Nalls' truck. He was charged with failure to stop and render aid and was being held at the Kaufman County Jail in lieu of $75,000 bail, said Sgt. Bryan Francis, a Kaufman County sheriff's spokesman.

IANAL, but if he was legally drunk, why wasn't he charged with something other than what sounds like a Good Samaritan law? Why not DWI/DUI? Why not vehicular manslaughter? One wonders exactly how much detail the reporter (or for that matter, the sheriff's office) really had at the time the article was written.

I did find another article, here, though it doesn't really shed that much more light:

As of Sunday night, the only person arrested as a result of Saturday night's incidents was Agustin Renteria, 27, of Kaufman. Mr. Renteria was eastbound in a 1996 Ford vehicle that drifted into the westbound lanes, striking the car in front of Ms. Nalls' pickup before hitting her vehicle, police said.

Mr. Renteria was charged with failure to stop and render aid, Sgt. Francis said. He was being held at the Kaufman County jail in lieu of $75,000 bond, Sgt. Francis said.

Mr. Renteria had been drinking alcohol, though it is unclear whether he was intoxicated, according to the state Department of Public Safety.

JT

[seamusTX]

Failure to stop and render aid is the standard charge for hit-and-run collisions. They could nail him with DUI after a blood test, or possibly homicide.

- Jim

[bdickens]

"No one "innocently" walks into a house...."

Wrong.

It's happened to my wife, before we were married. Someone walked right in. Thought it was the house next door.

I sat down in the wrong car, once. Perfectly sober too. Came out of a Wendy's, walked right out to what I thought was my car, opened the door and got in the driver's seat. Then I realized that it wasn't my stuff in the passenger seat. I'm sure glad that it wasn't paranoid old Mr. Frosch's car!

[dukalmighty]

"No one "innocently" walks into a house...."

Wrong.

It's happened to my wife, before we were married. Someone walked right in. Thought it was the house next door.

I sat down in the wrong car, once. Perfectly sober too. Came out of a Wendy's, walked right out to what I thought was my car, opened the door and got in the driver's seat. Then I realized that it wasn't my stuff in the passenger seat. I'm sure glad that it wasn't paranoid old Mr. Frosch's car!

I did that too and my key wouldn't start it ,then i realised the car was really clean ok first thought was i been robbed somebody stole all my trash

[AFJailor]

Am I the only one that questions the boys story? I mean come on, they "heard music playing" and decided to jump fences through peoples yards and stand just feet from some elderly mans back window? Sounds to me like they were up to no good and through together a story to make them look better. But I am medicated ATM so maybe I am not thinking right.

[numist]

Am I the only one that questions the boys story? I mean come on, they "heard music playing" and decided to jump fences through peoples yards and stand just feet from some elderly mans back window? Sounds to me like they were up to no good and through together a story to make them look better. But I am medicated ATM so maybe I am not thinking right.

I also have a problem with the boys being 2 to 3 feet from the window of their neighbor during the night for any reason. After seeing the tv new report of Frosche showing the reporter the hole in the glass where he fired throught the window I have another problem. Unless those boys were actively trying to open that window I don't think Frosche should have shot at them. I'm sure he was scared and was thinking the boys were probably 'up to no good'. I just don't think that their mere presence outside justified shooting at them through the window.

[boomerang]

Devin's mother, June Nalls, 41, died in a car accident minutes later while driving the boys to the hospital. A man who had been drinking drove his vehicle into her lane, striking her head-on, police said.

Ms. Nalls was killed minutes later in the accident, which also ruptured Brandon's spleen. Devin suffered minor injuries and was released from the hospital Sunday.

Agustin Renteria, 27, of Kaufman was driving the 1996 Ford that hit Ms. Nalls' truck. He was charged with failure to stop and render aid and was being held at the Kaufman County Jail in lieu of $75,000 bail, said Sgt. Bryan Francis, a Kaufman County sheriff's spokesman.

That's all he's charged with?

The guy was driving after drinking, he was on the wrong side of the street, and he killed a woman. Sounds like manslaughter.

Code: Select all

	§ 19.04. MANSLAUGHTER.  (a) A person commits an offense if he recklessly causes the death of an individual.
	(b)  An offense under this section is a felony of the second degree.

[Venus Pax]

Am I the only one that questions the boys story? I mean come on, they "heard music playing" and decided to jump fences through peoples yards and stand just feet from some elderly mans back window?

Teenagers have never been known for their wisdom. More of them can be categorized as temporarily stupid than mean.