The kind of lack in training most soldiers have with pistols? Consider this - even WITH a manual safety, officers in theater (those most commonly issued pistols) account for the largest percentage of negligent discharges. Lots of clearing barrels with 9mm holes in them out here. They usually come in pairs as well - boom, rack, boom.
What Gunny says is absolutely true. There is only one flaw in it. I am in the military and Negligent Discharges happen too often with empty weapons equipped with manual safeties.
The constant cycle of unholstering, loading, making ready, holstering, unhlostering, clearing and reholstering (repeat, repeat, repeat) is far more handling than the average CHLer will have in a lifetime...The safety and long DA trigger {I assume you are talking of the M-9} provide another level of prevention.
I believe manual safeties (which I take to mean the thumb-actuated gizmo on the left side) add nothing to the safety of a pistol while it is in your hand. It is intended to lock the firing mechanism when a pistol with a light trigger (such as many 1911s) is in its holster. As ably demonstrated by the above quotes, they certainly don't prevent NDs, any more than "empty" guns do. About the first thing you do when properly drawing a manual-safety-equipped pistol is take off the safety. It has to be off to move the slide, which means it has to be off to fire it, to load it, to unload it, to show clear, etc. THAT's when you get NDs -- when it is in the same configuration as a Glock. If you screw up the procedure and pull the trigger before actually clearing the weapon, I can't see the 10 or 12 lb pull being much different than the 5 lb trigger -- you're going to pull the trigger because you are used to pulling a long trigger, and badly (and hopefully ONLY) embarrass yourself at the clearing barrel.
Mixing guns and poorly trained or disciplined people is going to result in problems, and a manual safety is not going to save you. Whether Gunny gets paid to say it or not, Glocks are superb pistols. Reliable, rugged, combat accurate, simple to use, no extraneous stuff on them. Great military handguns, which of course is what they were designed to be.
In other words, it is not a Glock problem. It is a training and discipline problem, and it exists regardless of the gun type.
John Farnam has developed a philosophy and a set of procedures to deal with this issue, and he teaches it to law enforcement, private citizens, and a fair amount of Marines headed to Iraq. He taught it to me, and it makes perfect sense; my interpretation of the philosophy follows (focused on pistols). To get the real thing, go buy his book at defense-training .com, or take one of his classes.
- All guns are to be treated as if they are loaded.
- Since they are to be treated as if they are loaded, then go ahead and keep them loaded at all times when you are using them. They are useless if they are not loaded, so put ammo in them. If you going to store them in the safe, then if you wish unload them, or if you are going to clean them, by all means load them, but the rest of the time they are loaded. Then you never have to worry about whether it is loaded or not. Of course it is.
- Your (quality) holster is made to carry your pistol on your body safely, so use it. Eat, work, move, drive, whatever -- your pistol is safest when it is in your holster, where you can control it, keep it safe from others, and have it handy when it is needed.
- Any time you handle your pistol, you give yourself a chance to have an ND (and John notes the most likely time to have an ND is within 2 seconds of the last ND). So handle it only when necessary, i.e. when you need to fight, practice, or clean it, or put it away for storage. Therefore, get rid of all clearing barrels -- the situation is much safer with the pistol in your holster, without you or anyone else fiddling with it. Think about it -- REQUIRING everyone to handle, unload, and reload their weapons EVERY time they move into and out of certain areas provides an equal number of opportunities to ND. If you just walk in, do your business, and walk out, while keeping your pistol in your holster the whole time, everyone is that much safer.
John and Vickie (his wife) run hot ranges when they instruct. We always keep our pistols loaded and magazines topped up (which you can do without unholstering) between drills, at lunch on the range, going to the portopotty, whatever. He notes this is quite novel and eyebrow-raising when they teach at a Marine base. Generally the official range staff is banished, everybody is instructed in handling procedures, they load up, and drive on. He reports the Marines are much happier this way.
As an officer, I had military training in the M-9, and I had Vickie Farnam's training. I always knew the military training was weak tea -- Vickie showed me more in one morning than all the M-9 classes I had in my career.
There ND problem with not with Glocks or M-9s -- the problem is with training and discipline. Choosing one pistol over the other because of a widget is not going to save anyone.
