Disturning reading...very disturbing.

[DoubleActionCHL]

I found Erik's statement, "You are just as much a threat to a LEO with a CCW as the guy who doesnt have a CCW and is carrying," particularly disturbing. According to DPS conviction rates (latest being 2005), CHL holders comprised only 0.37% of all felony grade and weapon related offenses. I'd say that little fact takes the wind right out of Erik's sails. There seems to be a common mindset among many of the posters on that site that LEOs are somehow elite. They believe the 2nd Amendment is obsolete and irrelevant. That type of thinking among our police officers is quite dangerous. I certainly hope that these guys are a minority. Of the many local officers I'm acquainted with, I'd venture to say that none of them share these beliefs.

[para45]

I AM SO GLAD I LIVE IN THE LONE STAR STATE ,not saying it may wont or hasnt happened in texas but some of the other states LEO are just not to understanding of our rights. I am sorry if some of the LEO dont like armed citizens, but ITS THE LAW, and they have to deal with it. Just like we have to deal with laws we might not like. If you dont like it write your congressman/woman. until then i will keep on packing.

[KD5NRH]

I found Erik's statement, "You are just as much a threat to a LEO with a CCW as the guy who doesnt have a CCW and is carrying," particularly disturbing. According to DPS conviction rates (latest being 2005), CHL holders comprised only 0.37% of all felony grade and weapon related offenses.

To be more specific to that argument, CHL holders constituted 0.0000% of convictions for assault/aggravated assault on a public servant for 2005.

[nitrogen]

And people wonder why LEO's are looked down upon.

With vocal losers like that spoiling it for the truly good ones, it's no wonder.

[FightinAggieCHL]

I like how the DC Cop's signature line reads:
"Im just to for school"

So it would seem...

[gregthehand]

I started to read the thread but stopped at about page 4. My take is that the main instigators on this one are NOT cops and are PROBABLY underage. I noticed one person who ahd been on the forum for a while said something to Erik (Mr. The Second is antiqued) that "he will never be hired". I'm guessing he is some student wanna-be. I think he even admits to that. Plus you will notice he too is from an area where CCW is not permitted.

As someone who has worked in LE their attitude is very distrubing but is also nothing new. We had a guy in the Academy who looked at "citizens" (which by the way unless you are in the military you're a citizen... yes cops this means you) as some kind of inferior class of people. I remember he told me once tha the would disarm ANYONE with a CHL no matter what. The funny thing was that when we went to the range this guy could not:

- Load his firearm (Kimber TLE stainless with a rail)
- Safety his firearm
- Shoot his firearm
- Take apart and clean his firearm

He had bought it new and had not fired it yet. He had never fired a pistol period. He lived with his mom in Tomball and had also bought a shotgun. He had bought both new and said that one day when his mom left for work he fired the shotgun three times in the backyard a at a tree. Yes he lived in the suburbs.

He laughed all through the penal code section talking about indecency with a child, sexual assault, etc. He also picked up his g/f somedays at 3 from school.

He was well known with all the local cops in Tomball for harrasing officers and getting on ride-alongs and being a nuisance. He somehow aquired a Harris County Pct 4 uniform shirt and called the Constable's office to come pick it up. He told the dispatcher he "wanted them to run hot on their way out" and was standing in his yard with the shirt when they got there. On a hanger nice and pressed. He claimed he bought it from some kid.

Ok now the funny part. He bought one of those Uncle Mikes nylon holsters with the spare mag pouch holder for his duty gear. We had to stand in a line facing a range wall and practice drawing and then re-holstering until we could do it with out looking. Anyway first time out the shoot this guy (being so un-cooridnated) tugs on the grip of his gun without dis-engaging the thumb strap and then stands there pointing his pistol down range with the holster still on it. The next time he broke the thumb strap but only after he had pulled the holster off his belt again and it fell to the ground. This confused him and he turned around and swept have the line. The next day they FINALLY threw him out of the academy.

Whew long I know but it goes to show anyone can get into the Academy but thankfully not everyone makes it through and their are some dumb ones.

I used to think, when I was younger, that everyone was just as smart as everyone else and that some didn't apply theirselves as much as others. Now I realize that some people are just bumb and there is nothing that can be done for them .

[45 4 life]

I have worked in the LE field, and yes there are some bad apples that get past all of the pre-employment screenings and interviews, just like I am certain there are handgun license holders that probably should not be carrying a weapon.

There are LEO's that after being on the job for a period change their attitudes and beliefs. There are some that abuse the powers they are given and imagine powers that they do not have. I am also sure that having the permit to carry as gone to the heads of some CHL holders.

I was issued my CHL based on the fact that I obey rules and laws and the crimminal history check has shown proof of that. I will continue to follow the rules in regard to CHL, and I will show my permit during a traffic stop as required. I will surrender my firearm upon request of the officer because the current conditions gives him the right to disarm me.

This will be done safely, and will not endanger the officer or myself. If not my very next stop will be the department where the officer is employed where we can discuss dept. policy. I have never personally known someone who was removed from the vehicle, cuffed, or searched simply because he was legally carrying a firearm. If this should occur the same trip should be made to the department. At no time should the officer try to lecture, or question you based on his own personal beliefs. That is not his job. His job is to perform his duties based on the laws, and dept. policies.

Always remember, if you feel like you have been stopped by one of the bad apples that are out and about you can at anytime politely say "I want a supervisor here before we continue". That is another right that you have, but one that is not widely known.

For that DC cop, if I were working in that gun free war zone, I would want as many armed good guys around me as possible. It would be a shame to go up to someones relative at a funeral (imagine spouse of killed LEO in DC) and say "If I could have assembled my shotgun faster I could have saved him.

A good poll to take on this forum would be this:
You have a CHL and you are armed, driving. You come upon a LEO in a active gun battle with a BG.
Do you stop and render aid?

[DoubleJ]

...their are some dumb ones.

QFT

srsly, my brother from another mother is a cop up in WF (not the one I've done the ride-a-longs with), and just gradiated from the academy. He told me numerous stories of a few idjits in his class. one guy couldn't pass the spelling test (you know, the basic one you're given the first day of school) and eventually failed enough tests they booted him.
the gradiates (yes, I'm spelling that wrong on purpose) were all decent folk, though.
except my bro, of course!

[KBCraig]

Gregthehand's story reminds me of a guy who had been frequenting another forum I hang out on. He's been asking for advice on every state and federal LE or corrections agency job out there, but hasn't had any luck getting hired (thankfully).

Just today he announced he was interviewing for a private military contractor for overseas work. It seemed like an absurdly low rate of pay ($38k salary plus bonuses, total $51k, plus $25/day meal allowance).

So far everyone has been polite enough to not suggest mall security, since it's obvious he really just wants a uniform and some (perceived) authority.

[stroo]

Every profession has its bad apples. There are ministers and priests who defraud parishoners and sexually abuse vulnerable people. There are doctors who cut corners and kill patients. There are professors and teachers who misuse their position to teach their own ideology. There are lawyers who defraud their clients. And there are police officers who abuse their authority, witness that officer who tased the guy down in Austin on Thanksgiving day. And all of these often get away with it for awhile. However the bad apples are also small samples in each profession. Every contact I have ever had with a police officer both before and after I got my CHL has been very professional. Moreover I have worked with several LEOs or exLEOs over the years and while most of them do like the authority, none of them abused it to the best of my knowledge.

I don't have a problem with a police officer disarming me during a traffic stop (although I would prefer them to not do so) particularly if it is a crime ridden spot where he or she has every reason to look with suspicion on everyone they come into contact with and there are all too many places like that in this country particularly in urban areas. I would have a problem with an officer who handcuffed me and threw me on the hood of my car for no good reason to disarm me. I also would have concerns about an officer who reached into the car through the window to take my gun from me. One is abusive and the other is dangerous for everyone involved. But I wouldn't make it an issue at the stop. I would take it up with the officers supervision later though. Officers of that stripe need to be dealt with for the public's protection.

[lrb111]

That's an outrageously rediculous amount of posturing. I simply cannot believe the majority are certified LEO.
First not all states require a CHL holder to hand their ID over for it. Second, If I really felt like messing with those ninjas, I would ask how they are going to handle all the new non-chl legal gun carriers in Texas? Ya Know, ones that are not required to even mention they are carrying concealed to the LEO? They are probably going to outnumber CHLs in short order.

[BambooShoots]

I like how the DC Cop's signature line reads:
"Im just to for school"

So it would seem...

He's not the only one....I can't believe how many of them can't use proper grammar.

It's scary how those people are in a position of power.

[Liberty]

I like how the DC Cop's signature line reads:
"Im just to for school"

So it would seem...

He's not the only one....I can't believe how many of them can't use proper grammar.

It's scary how those people are in a position of power.

While these guys are scary. It would unfair to judge them solely on their literary skills. I have known engineering geniuses who were almost illiterate. I have a brother who heads up a multi million dollar publishing operation and can't spell worth a hill of beans. A cops abilities to understand the law and the folks he has to deal with has little to do with his handle on English grammar.

[age_ranger]

Yeah, seems like a bunch of immature people.........it's no secret that an LEO might disarm you during a stop but if someone is getting slammed on the hood, either they deserved a stiff elbow or they need to file a complaint for it. I'm all for LEO's being able to smack a perps head on the door jam when yanking them out but to go overboard just because someone is carrying legally is a bit much. Thankfully, the officers in Texas that I know and have had encounters with have been professional and their behavior was the example for others to follow. AND......they've never disarmed me. Guess that probably has allot to do with how you handle yourself during the interaction as well.

[gregthehand]

I'm all for LEO's being able to smack a perps head on the door jam when yanking them out

I'm sure as heck not!

edit to add: as long as we are talking about pulling them out at the sally-port when they are already hooked up. As far as pulling them out f their own car say at the end of a persuit I only believe in using the force necesary to effect an arrest......