When does the 60 day clock begin to tick???

[red2000vette]

...from the day they cash your check, or from the day your pin is issued????

[seamusTX]

Technically, under the law, it's the day that they receive your application. This is covered in GC §411.176 and GC §411.177.

The PIN has no legal meaning. It's probably intended to keep people from calling multiple times to ask about the status of their application.

- Jim

[red2000vette]

Thanks Jim - that's what I understood to be the case, but with some of the posts in the Waiting Room I began to question that.

Bill

[melkor41]

From what i have seen.. the law says the day they get your application....

From what Mrs. Simone says.. its from the time they begin the background check, and it STOPS then RESTARTS every time they have to send you a letter asking to clarify something or for more information...

Perhaps someone with more legal-ese then me can clarify more.

[seamusTX]

Let's go over this again:

From the time that DPS receives your application, they have 30 days to start the state background checks.

The background checks are supposed to be finished in 60 days.

If DPS cannot complete the process in 90 days (say, you lived in Borneo for the last five years), they have to notify you of the reason. Then they have a total of 180 days to make a decision.

There's no provision in the law for "restarts" of these periods.

- Jim

[Charles L. Cotton]

Jim's post is correct. However, it's only because of a typo that DPS can take up to 90 days. DPS recognizes this and the administrators admit that 60 days is the standard they try to meet. This typo should be fixed in 2009. There is no such typo in the renewal language, so DPS has only 45 days from the date your complete application is received by DPS.

Chas.

[Oldgringo]

It appears that an application can be declared "incomplete" at the reviewer's whim with an unsigned form letter stating ..."fingerprints may not be acceptable"...

Mrs. Oldgringo has submitted three (3) additional sets of prints since her initial application of 12/17/07. She's had the same fingers and thumbs for 66 years. It's now over 130 days after her initial application and she still doesn't have a license.

What's up with this, can anyone help us ?

[red2000vette]

Sounds like age discrimination to me.

[Double Naught Spy]

She's had the same fingers and thumbs for 66 years. It's now over 130 days after her initial application and she still doesn't have a license.

Yes, I have had my prints for my entire life as well. That has nothing to do with the process. It isn't about how long you have had your prints (which should be for our entire lives for most of us), but if the print cards are done correctly.

[ryoung]

This is the law with respect to time frames...

"Applications must be complete and legible. If an application is not legible or is not complete, the department will notify the applicant of any apparent deficiency. The applicant will have 90 days from the date on which the department first received the original license application to amend the application."

"The department shall conduct the application review and background investigation not later than the 60th day after the date on which the director's designee receives the completed application materials, unless a question exists with respect to the accuracy of the application materials or the eligibility of the applicant, in which case the record check and investigation shall be completed not later that 180 days after the date the department receives the application materials. The department shall conduct the application review and background investigation within the required time period, as measured from the date when it was received and complete. An application is not considered to have been received until it is complete. Failure of the department to either issue or deny a license for a period of more than 30 days after the time required constitutes denial."

So. if I understand this legalese, the clock begins to tick on "the date when it [application] was received and complete." It follows then that for an application recieved by the department needing no amendment the license must be issued within 90 days or it is denied.

If the application is incomplete or needs to be amended, the license must be issued within 210 days or it is denied.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Here are the statutes that deal directly with time limits and notification requirements for processing CHL applications. The “typo� I’ve mentioned can be seen also.

§ 411.176. REVIEW OF APPLICATION MATERIALS. (a) On
receipt of the application materials by the department at its
Austin headquarters, the department shall conduct the appropriate
criminal history record check of the applicant through its
computerized criminal history system. Not later than the 30th day
after the date the department receives the application materials,
the department shall forward the materials to the director's
designee in the geographical area of the applicant's residence so
that the designee may conduct the investigation described by
Subsection (b).

Although the term “designee� isn’t statutorily defined, it clearly refers to a person in the applicant’s “geographical area.� DPS is supposed to start the computer background check upon “receipt of the application materials,� but it can wait up to 30 days to send the file to its designee to begin the local records check. If DPS sends the file to the local designee earlier than 30 days after DPS’s receipt of the application, then DPS cannot legally take 90 days to process. (See below.)

§ 411.177. ISSUANCE OR DENIAL OF LICENSE

(b) The department shall, not later than the 60th day after
the date of the receipt by the director's designee of the completed
application materials:
(1) issue the license;
(2) notify the applicant in writing that the
application was denied:
(A) on the grounds that the applicant failed to
qualify under the criteria listed in Section 411.172;
(B) based on the affidavit of the director's
designee submitted to the department under Section 411.176(b); or
(C) based on the affidavit of the qualified
handgun instructor submitted to the department under Section
411.189(c); or
(3) notify the applicant in writing that the
department is unable to make a determination regarding the issuance
or denial of a license to the applicant within the 60-day period
prescribed by this subsection and include in that notification an
explanation of the reason for the inability and an estimation of the
amount of time the department will need to make the determination.

When the DPS’s local “designee� receives the application file, the 60 day time limit begins. Note, this is not 60 days from the date DPS gets the application, nor is it 60 days from the date DPS receives the report from the local “designee.� This is the “typo� I have mentioned. The statute should read “. . . not later than the 60th day after the receipt by the DPS of the completed application . . .� This is what should be corrected in 2009.

§ 411.185. RENEWAL.

(c) The department shall renew the license of a license
holder who meets all the eligibility requirements and submits all
the renewal materials. Not later than the 45th day after receipt of
the renewal materials, the department shall issue the renewal or
notify the license holder in writing that the renewal application
was denied.

This is the renewal statute and the language here correctly refers to 45 days after receipt of the renewal materials; i.e. receipt by DPS. This is similar to how Tex. Gov’t Code §411.177 should read.

I hope this helps wade through the operative statutes.

Chas.

[melkor41]

Charles, what defines by law as to when it is received by the DPS?

Based on what we hear from emails and calls to the DPS most of the applications basicaly sit in a mail bin until they can be entered into the system. After they are entered we get the letter with the PIN.

Is "received" when the mailman drops off the packet? It said "completed application" they wont know its complete until they open it or is "received" when they acknowledge that they have a *completed* application in their hand?

I did not send my packet ceritifed and I worred for a month until Simone finaly looked in the system and ackknowledged that they had it and it was in pre-screening (which.. i thought pre-screening was already done since i applied online.. but as not to digress...) but my online status still shows as packet mailed to applicant.


I know there is little we can do right now and we are waiting on the next session. IIRC there is no real penalty if they do not complete it in time, and that any application that takes longer than a certian time frame is to be considered denied. Perhaps something to suggest to the next sesson is to put in a penalty of some sort... perhaps a rebate or discount for when you go up for renewal if they took too long on your first one. Perhaps it will speak to their pocketbooks that way into ramping up the staff.

[Kalrog]

Charles, what defines by law as to when it is received by the DPS?

It is when the package is delivered. That can be done by hand (as I did) or by USPS or even FedEx or UPS if you want to. But it is the day the completed package arrives at the DPS office by whatever means.

[melkor41]

Charles, what defines by law as to when it is received by the DPS?

It is when the package is delivered. That can be done by hand (as I did) or by USPS or even FedEx or UPS if you want to. But it is the day the completed package arrives at the DPS office by whatever means.

Yes, but is the "completed" package declared complete at the point where the usps guy drops it off, of when they rip it open and make sure it has everything in it?

[Kalrog]

Charles, what defines by law as to when it is received by the DPS?

It is when the package is delivered. That can be done by hand (as I did) or by USPS or even FedEx or UPS if you want to. But it is the day the completed package arrives at the DPS office by whatever means.

Yes, but is the "completed" package declared complete at the point where the usps guy drops it off, of when they rip it open and make sure it has everything in it?

It doesn't matter when it is declared complete. If they receive it on day 1 and open it on day 15 and everything is valid, the clock started on day 1 and they have 45 more days to complete everything. If they open it on day 15 and it is missing something, then they haven't received a completed application yet.