BB/pellet gun reccommendations?

[mr.72]

If you read my blog you might have noticed that my kids have taken to shooting my beat-up old Daisy 840 in the back yard.

Now they want a different gun. I am having a heck of a time finding one that fits the bill, so I thought I might ask the collective.

In an ideal world the following BB rifle would exist and I would buy it:

1. adult-size BB/pellet rifle - my girls are 5'6" and 5'10"
2. shoots BBs and pellets, .177 cal. I can compromise for a BB-only or pellet-only.
3. single pump (lever, underlever, whatever), or no pumping (CO2)
4. auto-loads BBs! This is the big sticking point! It has to be a repeater, not requiring manual loading of BBs into the breech by pulling back the bolt for each shot
5. if CO2, gets 50-100 or more shots for each CO2 cartridge like a normal CO2 BB pistol
6. >500 fps

In fact, it seems a likely gun would be a single-stroke spring-action underlever rifle that loads pellets or BBs from a magazine and shoots 700fps.

I can't seem to find what I am looking for.

Most BB/pellet rifles will not load BBs automatically. They require you to pull back the bolt and wiggle a BB from the reservoir into the breech just like my 840. This is my kids' main complaint. The Crosman 1077 gets closest of all to matching my requirements but changing the CO2 cartridge every 24 shots is not going to work out.

It mystifies me because ~400fps+ CO2 pistols that auto-load BBs or pellets from a magazine and shoot 100 shots per cartridge are reasonably common. Yet I cannot find any rifle like this.

BTW I wouldn't mind the manual breech loading if it was smooth and reliable. It's the whole dance of pull the bolt back against a spring, then wiggle the gun around, look and see if a BB loaded, repeat about 10x, per shot, that is getting old.

[Keith B]

If you read my blog you might have noticed that my kids have taken to shooting my beat-up old Daisy 840 in the back yard.

Now they want a different gun. I am having a heck of a time finding one that fits the bill, so I thought I might ask the collective.

In an ideal world the following BB rifle would exist and I would buy it:

1. adult-size BB/pellet rifle - my girls are 5'6" and 5'10"
2. shoots BBs and pellets, .177 cal. I can compromise for a BB-only or pellet-only.
3. single pump (lever, underlever, whatever), or no pumping (CO2)
4. auto-loads BBs! This is the big sticking point! It has to be a repeater, not requiring manual loading of BBs into the breech by pulling back the bolt for each shot
5. if CO2, gets 50-100 or more shots for each CO2 cartridge like a normal CO2 BB pistol
6. >500 fps

In fact, it seems a likely gun would be a single-stroke spring-action underlever rifle that loads pellets or BBs from a magazine and shoots 700fps.

I can't seem to find what I am looking for.

Most BB/pellet rifles will not load BBs automatically. They require you to pull back the bolt and wiggle a BB from the reservoir into the breech just like my 840. This is my kids' main complaint. The Crosman 1077 gets closest of all to matching my requirements but changing the CO2 cartridge every 24 shots is not going to work out.

It mystifies me because ~400fps+ CO2 pistols that auto-load BBs or pellets from a magazine and shoot 100 shots per cartridge are reasonably common. Yet I cannot find any rifle like this.

BTW I wouldn't mind the manual breech loading if it was smooth and reliable. It's the whole dance of pull the bolt back against a spring, then wiggle the gun around, look and see if a BB loaded, repeat about 10x, per shot, that is getting old.

Check pout the AS1077T. You have to reload after 12 shots, but the AirSource System should provide up to 400 consecutive shots http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Crosman_10 ... s1077t.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edited to add: If you want something that has more shot capacity (number of pellets) and is more 'tacti-cool' check out http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Beretta_CX ... 253005.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[iratollah]

Daisy 853C. Repeater with match grade sights and barrel. Terrific entry level rifle if they have interest in competitive air rifle.

[mr.72]

Check pout the AS1077T. You have to reload after 12 shots, but the AirSource System should provide up to 400 consecutive shots http://www.airgunsbbguns.com/Crosman_10 ... s1077t.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks, Keith. I saw that, but the giant AirSource bottle is seriously in the way of normal shooting with that gun. It's right in the way of the forestock! Anyway, this is little better than CO2, and far more expensive to buy, just as expensive to operate.

I think the 1077 is the most likely gun I will end up with.

The Daisy 853 is way[/] more money that I am going to spend on a pellet rifle and also is single-shot.

[iratollah]

The Daisy 853 is way more money that I am going to spend on a pellet rifle and also is single-shot.

Well you didn't state a price range, I suspect this may also be why you can't find anything. Remember that you'll get what you pay for. CMP has some reconditioned 853s for $75 for qualified buyers interested in teaching marksmanship.

Not sure why you think it's a single shot, from the Daisy website: the Avanti 853 Legend EX uses a 5-shot clip with auto-indexing.

Maybe you'll find this link helpful: http://www.pyramydair.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; They carry the Red Ryder if that's what you had in mind.

[mr.72]

5-shot clip but you still have to cycle the bolt for each shot. That is single-shot, using a 5-shot clip.

I am not interested in a Red Ryder because I don't have four foot tall children trying to shoot it. Those are toy-size guns. I am looking for a true adult-size repeating BB or pellet rifle that will shoot 500fps+.

I think the only autoloading medium-power, adult-size air rifles are the Crosman 1077 and Nightstalker. We are not interested in the tacticool Nightstalker. So my guess is 1077 it will be.

This seems like a great opportunity for a new product. Someone needs to take the action used in these 15+ shot BB semiauto CO2 pistols and put it in a rifle-format. Crosman gets 500fps out of some of their CO2 pistols with 100 shots per CO2 cartridge, and they are reliable autoloaders. With a rifle barrel they would probably get more like 550-600fps with .177 BBs. This would make an ideal back-yard plinking rifle. But I guess all of the marketing and product development money is put into airsoft guns for kids who want to look cool and pretend like they are shooting a real gun.

[Excaliber]

If you read my blog you might have noticed that my kids have taken to shooting my beat-up old Daisy 840 in the back yard.

Now they want a different gun. I am having a heck of a time finding one that fits the bill, so I thought I might ask the collective.

In an ideal world the following BB rifle would exist and I would buy it:

1. adult-size BB/pellet rifle - my girls are 5'6" and 5'10"
2. shoots BBs and pellets, .177 cal. I can compromise for a BB-only or pellet-only.
3. single pump (lever, underlever, whatever), or no pumping (CO2)
4. auto-loads BBs! This is the big sticking point! It has to be a repeater, not requiring manual loading of BBs into the breech by pulling back the bolt for each shot
5. if CO2, gets 50-100 or more shots for each CO2 cartridge like a normal CO2 BB pistol
6. >500 fps

In fact, it seems a likely gun would be a single-stroke spring-action underlever rifle that loads pellets or BBs from a magazine and shoots 700fps.

I can't seem to find what I am looking for.

Most BB/pellet rifles will not load BBs automatically. They require you to pull back the bolt and wiggle a BB from the reservoir into the breech just like my 840. This is my kids' main complaint. The Crosman 1077 gets closest of all to matching my requirements but changing the CO2 cartridge every 24 shots is not going to work out.

It mystifies me because ~400fps+ CO2 pistols that auto-load BBs or pellets from a magazine and shoot 100 shots per cartridge are reasonably common. Yet I cannot find any rifle like this.

BTW I wouldn't mind the manual breech loading if it was smooth and reliable. It's the whole dance of pull the bolt back against a spring, then wiggle the gun around, look and see if a BB loaded, repeat about 10x, per shot, that is getting old.

The reason you're having trouble finding what you want is that there is no market demand for your particular set of requirements.

Most adult air rifles are designed to shoot lead pellets rather than BB's. If you spring for the extra pennies for pellet ammunition, your loading awkwardness difficulties will go away.

[mr.72]

The reason you're having trouble finding what you want is that there is no market demand for your particular set of requirements.

Most adult air rifles are designed to shoot lead pellets rather than BB's. If you spring for the extra pennies for pellet ammunition, your loading awkwardness difficulties will go away.

Well, they will be replaced by new loading awkwardness... which is manually loading a single shot.

But it's pretty much the same amount of hassle. Makes me think maybe a break-barrel is going to be just as easy to use as anything other than a semi-auto, and the only semi-auto is a Crosman 1077. The 1077 has a lot going for it but for the same money I can get a more accurate gun with a real wood stock in a break-barrel or other action (underlever etc.) and not have the hassles of CO2.

The expense of the pellets is not the issue. It's the single-shot-loading requirement on virtually all pellet rifles which pushes me away from pellets. Just quite honestly, my kids are not going to use it if it requires you to load every single shot one at a time. That will be too much trouble and take away the fun factor. They hate operating the bolt, say it hurts their fingers, etc. So there's great allure to something that will automatically load. But my wife is going to complain if I am buying a box of CO2 cartridges every time we go to the grocery store. So you know I just can't please everyone. :)

[Keith B]

The reason you're having trouble finding what you want is that there is no market demand for your particular set of requirements.

Most adult air rifles are designed to shoot lead pellets rather than BB's. If you spring for the extra pennies for pellet ammunition, your loading awkwardness difficulties will go away.

Well, they will be replaced by new loading awkwardness... which is manually loading a single shot.

But it's pretty much the same amount of hassle. Makes me think maybe a break-barrel is going to be just as easy to use as anything other than a semi-auto, and the only semi-auto is a Crosman 1077. The 1077 has a lot going for it but for the same money I can get a more accurate gun with a real wood stock in a break-barrel or other action (underlever etc.) and not have the hassles of CO2.

The expense of the pellets is not the issue. It's the single-shot-loading requirement on virtually all pellet rifles which pushes me away from pellets. Just quite honestly, my kids are not going to use it if it requires you to load every single shot one at a time. That will be too much trouble and take away the fun factor. They hate operating the bolt, say it hurts their fingers, etc. So there's great allure to something that will automatically load. But my wife is going to complain if I am buying a box of CO2 cartridges every time we go to the grocery store. So you know I just can't please everyone. :)

How about going to .22 shorts?? No noise hardly and still a good option for no recoil. Even in town, you could probably get by with it if you were cautious and use a trap.

[mr.72]

Air guns are clearly legal in my city.

Any firearm is clearly illegal.

So airguns are my only choice for backyard practice :)

I am also considering airsoft but I have a heck of a time thinking of that as anything but just a poseur toy.

[Excaliber]

The reason you're having trouble finding what you want is that there is no market demand for your particular set of requirements.

Most adult air rifles are designed to shoot lead pellets rather than BB's. If you spring for the extra pennies for pellet ammunition, your loading awkwardness difficulties will go away.

Well, they will be replaced by new loading awkwardness... which is manually loading a single shot.

But it's pretty much the same amount of hassle. Makes me think maybe a break-barrel is going to be just as easy to use as anything other than a semi-auto, and the only semi-auto is a Crosman 1077. The 1077 has a lot going for it but for the same money I can get a more accurate gun with a real wood stock in a break-barrel or other action (underlever etc.) and not have the hassles of CO2.

The expense of the pellets is not the issue. It's the single-shot-loading requirement on virtually all pellet rifles which pushes me away from pellets. Just quite honestly, my kids are not going to use it if it requires you to load every single shot one at a time. That will be too much trouble and take away the fun factor. They hate operating the bolt, say it hurts their fingers, etc. So there's great allure to something that will automatically load. But my wife is going to complain if I am buying a box of CO2 cartridges every time we go to the grocery store. So you know I just can't please everyone. :)

With what you're looking to achieve, I think you'd be much happier with a quality Airsoft gun. Forget the ones you see in WalMart - the good ones can be found at specialized Airsoft dealers or online. Check out the Airsoft Megastore, or google Airsoft guns and find other suppliers out there. Many of these guns function just like the real ones they imitate, including magazine loading, safeties, semiauto operation with reciprocating slides / bolts, etc. Even full auto versions are available. I have a 1911 imitation that has served me extremely well for keeping up my draw skills and maintaining proficiency with multiple targets at different angles and ranges in my garage without the travel or range fees burning powder requires.

Their velocity is high enough that you definitely don't want to get hit by the extremely inexpensive (about $4 for a few thousand) pellets. They're used in LEO force on force training exercises (with proper protective gear), and are terrific for informal shooting at reactionary targets (snack crackers make great ones, and the birds will clean up the mess). I think they'd be just the ticket to keep both your kids and your wallet happy.

[longhorn_92]

Ralphie: [Ralphie is shoved down the slide, but he stops himself and climbs back up] No! No! I want an Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifle!

Santa Claus: You'll shoot your eye out, kid.

[mr.72]

I found a barely-used Crosman 1077 on craigslist yesterday, might try and grab that.

[KBCraig]

Air guns are clearly legal in my city.

Any firearm is clearly illegal.

So airguns are my only choice for backyard practice :)

I have a "Fast Deer" Chinese side-cocker (model KL3B, I think; it's sold by Summit Sports), which is a pretty high velocity .177 air rifle. I also have a case of Aguila Super Colibri primer-powered .22 ammo that we shoot in various bolt action .22 rifles.

The air rifle is louder than the Colibri.

That makes sense, because it's higher muzzle velocity. Plus, there is some mechanical and spring piston noise that you don't have with the .22 rifle, and it tends to diesel the first few shots. But for all practical purposes, for anyone over 10 yards away, the loudest sound heard from either one is the ping of the spinning metal targets we like to use.

Discharging firearms is also illegal in my little city, but I've never hesitated to shoot the Super Colibri. We built a nice backstop out of stacked 4x4 timbers, and enjoy backyard target shooting in perfect safety.

Oh, as for the 1077, I also have one (a factory CO2 version). Horrible, horrible, horrible trigger! As an experienced shooter I can deal with it, but it's not something I would use to teach marksmanship to a youngster.

[mr.72]

Oh, come now. Horrible trigger is what they say about nearly all DAO type triggers.

DA revolver, my Sigma, etc.

I hear the 1077 trigger harshness is mostly due to the magazine, which breaks in over time. 1000 rounds or 1000 pulls of the trigger in an unloaded gun, is what I read about it. No first-hand experience.

The trigger on my junky Daisy is horrible too.