Question for Christians

[Keith B]

Verse 3 says that the defender cannot take the life of a thief in the daytime.

Kinda like Texas law that says you can use deadly force after sunset for theft. Wonder if they use the REAL rule book to come up with that??

[dewayneward]

dewayneward has it partly right. "turning the other cheek" is actually an act of defiance. Instead of taking the insult of a backhanded slap, by turning the other cheek you are in effect saying "if you are going to hit me, you are going to hit me like a man and an equal!"

Please exegete this for me as I believe that my reponse was a scripturally based one that takes the matter in the appropriate context, where it appears that yours is trying to read something into the passage. I may be coming at this from a wrong angle, but I dont see where this section is an act of defiance. I have done (in my mind) the appropriate biblical interpretation method which is reading the entire section so as to keep things in context (so as not to rip a passage out of its natural meaning). this section is about personal relationships and each of the examples that I am reading talks about basically taking the "higher moral ground" as it were, hence my understanding of turn the other check that if someone "insults" you, do not return their insult. I am not seminary trained or anything and I sure dont want to be thinking the wrong thing on scripture, so if you could explain your position I would appreciate it.

Personal Relationships
21"(Z)You have heard that the ancients were told, '(AA)YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to (AB)the court.'
22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before (AC)the court; and whoever says to his brother, '[c]You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before [d](AD)the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the [e](AE)fiery hell.

23"Therefore if you are (AF)presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,

24leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be (AG)reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.

25"(AH)Make friends quickly with your opponent at law while you are with him on the way, so that your opponent may not hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the officer, and you be thrown into prison.

26"Truly I say to you, (AI)you will not come out of there until you have paid up the last [f]cent.

27"(AJ)You have heard that it was said, '(AK)YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';

28but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman (AL)with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

29"(AM)If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into (AN)hell.

30"(AO)If your right hand makes you stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to go into (AP)hell.

31"It was said, '(AQ)WHOEVER SENDS HIS WIFE AWAY, LET HIM GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE';

32(AR)but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

33"Again, (AS)you have heard that the ancients were told, '(AT)YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FALSE VOWS, BUT SHALL FULFILL YOUR VOWS TO THE LORD.'

34"But I say to you, (AU)make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is (AV)the throne of God,

35or by the earth, for it is the (AW)footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is (AX)THE CITY OF THE GREAT KING.

36"Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.

37"But let your statement be, 'Yes, yes' or 'No, no'; anything beyond these is of (AY)evil.

38"(AZ)You have heard that it was said, '(BA)AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'

39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but (BB)whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

40"If anyone wants to sue you and take your [g]shirt, let him have your [h]coat also.

41"Whoever forces you to go one mile, go with him two.

42"(BC)Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

43"(BD)You have heard that it was said, '(BE)YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR (BF)and hate your enemy.'

44"But I say to you, (BG)love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,

45so that you may be (BH)sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

46"For (BI)if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

47"If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same?

48"Therefore (BJ)you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

[bdickens]

PM sent.

[thankGod]

I have glanced through these post and seen a few mentions in scripture. There is right to self defense in Deuteronomy and the Psalms also, plus other. I am including text from the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" so that you may see this from the Church's perspective.

ARTICLE 5 - THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT

You shall not kill.[54]

You have heard that it was said to the men of old, "You shall not kill: and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment."

But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment.[55]

2258 "Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being."[56]

and just a few paragraphs down...

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor.... The one is intended, the other is not."[65]

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful.... Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.[65]

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.[66]

So, not only is it your right to self-defense, but a duty!

[anygunanywhere]

I have glanced through these post and seen a few mentions in scripture. There is right to self defense in Deuteronomy and the Psalms also, plus other. I am including text from the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" so that you may see this from the Church's perspective.

ARTICLE 5 - THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT

You shall not kill.[54]

You have heard that it was said to the men of old, "You shall not kill: and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment."

But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment.[55]

2258 "Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end. God alone is the Lord of life from its beginning until its end: no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being."[56]

and just a few paragraphs down...

Legitimate defense

2263 The legitimate defense of persons and societies is not an exception to the prohibition against the murder of the innocent that constitutes intentional killing. "The act of self-defense can have a double effect: the preservation of one's own life; and the killing of the aggressor.... The one is intended, the other is not."[65]

2264 Love toward oneself remains a fundamental principle of morality. Therefore it is legitimate to insist on respect for one's own right to life. Someone who defends his life is not guilty of murder even if he is forced to deal his aggressor a lethal blow:
If a man in self-defense uses more than necessary violence, it will be unlawful: whereas if he repels force with moderation, his defense will be lawful.... Nor is it necessary for salvation that a man omit the act of moderate self-defense to avoid killing the other man, since one is bound to take more care of one's own life than of another's.[65]

2265 Legitimate defense can be not only a right but a grave duty for someone responsible for another's life. Preserving the common good requires rendering the unjust aggressor unable to inflict harm. To this end, those holding legitimate authority have the right to repel by armed force aggressors against the civil community entrusted to their charge.[66]

So, not only is it your right to self-defense, but a duty!

Our parish priest recently (before the election) delivered a homily where he in great detail discussed the Constitution and BOR along with the Church's teachings on subjects of abortion, voting, governmental powers etc. He specifically quoted the second amendment verbatim and emphasized the duty to defend oneself and others.

Mrs. Anygun looked at me. I was looking around and caught a few looks on some faces as if they were thinking "Wow! Did I just hear what I thought I heard?"

I complemented him later on his homily. I always had my suspicions because he is quite the outdoorsman.

Anygunanywhere