Consolidate Powders into one kind

[RiverRat]

Hi, I'm looking for ideas as to one good all around powder to use with pistol rounds, .380, .38/357mag, 9mm, 38 super, .40., .45acp and .45 Colt and one good powder to use with rifle rounds, .223, 7.62x39, .30-06, .308, and 7.62x54r.

I would shoot target with most. I don't trust homemade loads for self defense use......BUT one of my issues is that I wanted to reload to save money and practice using a load that more closely emulates the self defense loads. With Mrs. RiverRat and three college aged Chl's, all shooting .45acp, I would like them all to be competent with PD level ammo without going to Congress for a bailout.. Also with Mrs. RiverRat and three college aged Chl's, all shooting .45acp, 75% of my reloading will be .45acp.

I know everyone has their pet loads. I would like simplify if at all possible.
With pistols, I have used Bullseye, Unique, and Clays. I can't really see any differences other than the powder volume in the brass. Please give me some insight as to why you would use one powder over the other?

With pistols, I shoot mainly mid range handloads (by the manuals) as I have no test equipment to verify velocities. Most PD loads appear to run higher velocities for better hp penetration. While I haven't noticed a lot of variation in kick or accuracy between PD and target at the meger distances 7, 15, and 25 yds, I have not been practicing with fly swatting accuracy as a goal, just hits in the middle of the black.

With rifle, I have been using IMR 3031, just because I found loads for all of the calibers listed.

The bottom line is that unless you have unlimited time and funds, you can't gather the data to make a good informed decision. Most of the commerical opinions revolve around the free stuff they receive to review. If Accurate were to send me 8lbs of there latest powder, guess what I would be using a lot of for reloading. Thanks in advance.

[Houston1944]

If I had to choose one powder for such a wide range of handgun calibers I believe I would go with W231, especially since you are stating that 75% will be in 45acp.

The rifle powder I have used in the most calibers with very good results is Varget. I have used it in 223, 30-30, 7mm-08, 243, 270 and 308. I also know there is load data for it in 30-06. It is part of the Hodgdon's "Extreme" powders which means it is not affected by temperature swings. When you develop loads in 95 degree weather and shoot them in 30 degree weather you can have significant differences in the results. Since I do not reload the 7.62x54 and x39 I am not sure it would be suitable for these two calibers.

[RiverRat]

If I had to choose one powder for such a wide range of handgun calibers I believe I would go with W231, especially since you are stating that 75% will be in 45acp.

What advantage does the W231 offer over Clays or Unique or Bullseye for the pistol?

I did not realize or am familiar with temperature for loading or powder temperature issues? Please elaborate.

Honestly, 40, and 45 are only ones I shoot any quantity of........as I had mentioned, the family has moved to mostly 45 for CC and target. The girls still carry XD40SC's, but shoot them less than the acp. Once they started shooting 1911's, they haven't looked back.

My father-in-law had also mentioned the Varget. The rifle is not as critical to me. I mostly buy small quantities of commerically manufactured hunting ammo, particularly in 30.06 and .308. I just got an AR and was considering reloading .223 because of the $0.50 a round cost for plinking.

I am just thinking ahead about getting a little powder put back. Too much compromise by holding it to one powder for pistols and one powder for rifles might not be wise. The 7.62xrussian stuff I don't expect to reload, but have been saving the brass ( when I shoot brass case) anyway. You never know.

[HankB]

For pistol, I would choose SR4756. It fills about the same niche as Unique (DON'T interchange data!) but burns a lot cleaner.

For rifle . . . that's a tough one. IMR4320 works well in .223 and is the slowest powder recommended for an unaltered .30/06 M1 Garand, so it ought to do for the other rounds.

[sskimber]

I will agree with the W231 for the pistol. I load 45, 40, 38, and 357 mag with W231. I have not loaded but data is available for 44 mag. it is in my opinion the best all around pistol powder.

For rifle I will add an additional option I am loading IMR 4895 in 30-06, 243 and 223 with great results.

[Houston1944]

My reply was just an answer to the question of what "one" powder could be loaded in a list of handgun calibers ranging from 380 to 357mag and was certainly not a recommendation that anyone take the path of one powder for all handgun calibers. I never intended to imply that it was superior to Clays or any other powder. It does have a burn rate that puts it in a catagory to be slow enough for light 357mag loads and fast enough to be used in the 380 auto.

I only use W231 for 185gr FMJ in 45acp, 45ar and for 45 colt 250gr lead bullet loads. (W231 in the 45 colt is one of the most accurate loads I have in any caliber). Part of the fun in reloading for me is to develop loads with different powders. During the past year I have loaded 45acp with Clays, Titegroup, W231, Longshot, Power Pistol and N310. Probably 50% or more of the loads have been 200gr LSWC with Clays which is what I am shooting most of the time.

I have had problems with some IMR loads when shooting in very hot temperature conditions. The most extreme example was a few years ago I was shooting my 270 during Aug with temperatures around 100 degrees. The IMR 4831 load I was using had been developed during the early spring when it was still very cool. I was chronographing about 150 fps over the earlier numbers (from 3159 to over 3300) and was also blowing out primers. This is why I now try to stay with Hodgdon's Extreme series for hunting loads.

[ghostrider]

I've been trying to consolidate powders as well and found I've ended up with more different powders than when I started, but then I reload 38spl target loads and 460 Rowland high performance loads, so I have to have at least 2 pistol powders. I've been pretty happy with green dot for target loads and blue dot for higher performance. There isn't a lot of recent data for green dot, but I think its an underrated powder. The problem is that certain powders work best for certain calibres under certain conditions. Blue dot is too slow and leaves unburnt flakes in 45acp or 460 rowland and is no longer safe for 357 with 125gr bullets, but it burns clean in 9mm with 124gr bullets.

For rifle, I would lean towards WW748.

[RiverRat]

I will agree with the W231 for the pistol. I load 45, 40, 38, and 357 mag with W231. I have not loaded but data is available for 44 mag. it is in my opinion the best all around pistol powder.

For rifle I will add an additional option I am loading IMR 4895 in 30-06, 243 and 223 with great results.

I haven't used W231, so will get some and experiment.......45 Colt is something I really what to start shooting...I have 3 Colt SAA's in .45 and have never popped a cap in one. There's something primal about the old west wheel guns. Too much Roy Rogers as a kid.

My reply was just an answer to the question of what "one" powder could be loaded in a list of handgun calibers ranging from 380 to 357mag and was certainly not a recommendation that anyone take the path of one powder for all handgun calibers. I never intended to imply that it was superior to Clays or any other powder. It does have a burn rate that puts it in a catagory to be slow enough for light 357mag loads and fast enough to be used in the 380 auto.

I only use W231 for 185gr FMJ in 45acp, 45ar and for 45 colt 250gr lead bullet loads. (W231 in the 45 colt is one of the most accurate loads I have in any caliber). Part of the fun in reloading for me is to develop loads with different powders. During the past year I have loaded 45acp with Clays, Titegroup, W231, Longshot, Power Pistol and N310. Probably 50% or more of the loads have been 200gr LSWC with Clays which is what I am shooting most of the time.

I have had problems with some IMR loads when shooting in very hot temperature conditions. The most extreme example was a few years ago I was shooting my 270 during Aug with temperatures around 100 degrees. The IMR 4831 load I was using had been developed during the early spring when it was still very cool. I was chronographing about 150 fps over the earlier numbers (from 3159 to over 3300) and was also blowing out primers. This is why I now try to stay with Hodgdon's Extreme series for hunting loads.

I appreciate the advice. The .45 Colt is on this year's "want to do" list. I do have IMR 4831 and 3031 for rifle out there already. I had purchased last year based on it's multi-rifle caliber data for use with Garand and M1A.

Do you think the increase in ambient temp changed the burn rate / velocity? You are making me wonder if reloading rifle is worth it. I doubt I shoot 10 rounds a year for real in hunting guns. My reloading thoughts were related to reloading surplus expended in the battle rifles for plinking.

I wish I had time and resources to test them all. I know lots of folks enjoy all the experimentation. I have such limited time, I would rather spend it shooting. My goal was to simplify by having fewer powders and fewer bullet weights, etc. I have never considered fewer guns, though...

[Houston1944]

There is no doubt the hot weather created the higher pressures in my load. Don't let this discourage you from reloading rifle. The problem was I maxed out a load in 55 degree weather and then shot it later in 100 degree weather. I knew the loads would increase a little, I was just surprised they increased that much.

When you decide to start shooting those 45 Colts try 6.5 to 6.9 gr of W231 with the 250 gr lead bullet.

[KD5NRH]

What advantage does the W231 offer over Clays or Unique or Bullseye for the pistol?

Set-and-forget on the Lee Auto-Disk; if 4.1gr under a 230gr bullet will cycle your .45ACP, you're good to go. That's within spec for .38Spl, .357Mag and 9mm with 125gr bullets. (At least according to the data I have - always verify with your own sources.) Since those are the weights I'm currently set up to cast, and the calibers I have for the Pro-1000, I'm really hoping my 1911 cycles properly with a load that light. I should find out tomorrow. If so, I'll be stocking up even more on 231.

Frankly, though, I'd prefer to always keep Bullseye, Unique, and Clays around for comparison testing. They're all versatile powders, and all good standbys for pretty much any pistol load. If you're trying to duplicate POI and felt recoil of a premium factory defensive load for practice, for example, it's sometimes necessary to be able to switch to something faster or slower burning than your everyday powder.

[RiverRat]

There is no doubt the hot weather created the higher pressures in my load. Don't let this discourage you from reloading rifle. The problem was I maxed out a load in 55 degree weather and then shot it later in 100 degree weather. I knew the loads would increase a little, I was just surprised they increased that much.

When you decide to start shooting those 45 Colts try 6.5 to 6.9 gr of W231 with the 250 gr lead bullet.

That's a huge change in velocity. Glad I haven't measured any mine over years.

What bullets are you using? What velocity will this run? I was in another post here about leading/cast hardness worrying about leading.
What caused my question was a cast bullet outfit was offering 5000 for the cost 4000....thought if I could just use 230gr, then I could run them in acp guns too. Trying to simplify again.

[RiverRat]

What advantage does the W231 offer over Clays or Unique or Bullseye for the pistol?

Set-and-forget on the Lee Auto-Disk; if 4.1gr under a 230gr bullet will cycle your .45ACP, you're good to go. That's within spec for .38Spl, .357Mag and 9mm with 125gr bullets. (At least according to the data I have - always verify with your own sources.) Since those are the weights I'm currently set up to cast, and the calibers I have for the Pro-1000, I'm really hoping my 1911 cycles properly with a load that light. I should find out tomorrow. If so, I'll be stocking up even more on 231.

Frankly, though, I'd prefer to always keep Bullseye, Unique, and Clays around for comparison testing. They're all versatile powders, and all good standbys for pretty much any pistol load. If you're trying to duplicate POI and felt recoil of a premium factory defensive load for practice, for example, it's sometimes necessary to be able to switch to something faster or slower burning than your everyday powder.

Let me know if it cycles ok. Which 1911? All of mine seem to have different personalities.

[KD5NRH]

Let me know if it cycles ok. Which 1911? All of mine seem to have different personalities.

Late '50s Colt Gov't Model. Great shooter, and the only significant failures I've seen from it were light-loaded 185gr SWCs.

[KD5NRH]

Let me know if it cycles ok. Which 1911? All of mine seem to have different personalities.

Late '50s Colt Gov't Model. Great shooter, and the only significant failures I've seen from it were light-loaded 185gr SWCs.

And nope, unfortunately, it doesn't cycle consistently.

Also, the 4.1gr in .357 is with *magnum primers*. I misread my load sheet and hung a bullet in my carry gun. It works with .38 hulls, but apparently the extra space in .357s is just a bit too much. (There was enough powder residue in the bore, and enough hot gas across my knuckles from the cylinder gap that I feel pretty safe in saying it wasn't just a missed drop from the measure.)

Given those results, I may go up a few tenths and see if that makes the difference. Looks like even the .38Spl can handle 4.8gr, so I may still be able to come up with a set-and-forget position that works for all four guns.

[RiverRat]

Keep us posted.