Opinions on 45's

[Skiprr]

I am wanting a 5" barrel for accuracy and I want a single stack for slimness.

I guess I could have one with a safety, but I would have to carry it with the safety always off. The handgun, like my others, is for the purposes only of self defense. One less safety, one less chance of the weapon not firing when I need it to.

I really like these, especially the black one.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 20&t=21388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just was wanting something like it without the thumb and grip safeties. I guess nothing like that is out there?

No disparagement intended, honestly, but you really don't know anything about handguns, do you?

My advice is to seek out a competent instructor. Before you even pick up a handgun, you need to ingrain the basics of safety and handling. Much more follows, but you gotta be able to walk before you can run.

[Excaliber]

I am wanting a 5" barrel for accuracy and I want a single stack for slimness.

I guess I could have one with a safety, but I would have to carry it with the safety always off. The handgun, like my others, is for the purposes only of self defense. One less safety, one less chance of the weapon not firing when I need it to.

I really like these, especially the black one.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 20&t=21388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just was wanting something like it without the thumb and grip safeties. I guess nothing like that is out there?

You don't need a 5" barrel for accuracy. A Kimber Ultra Carry with a 3.5" barrel will shoot more accurately than you can, and you'll likely get tired of carrying around all that extra steel pretty quickly.

Skiprr's advice below is the best way for you to work through the options to meet your needs without spending a ton of money learning on your own what a knowledgeable instructor could help you figure out in a couple of hours.

[Glock 23]

I am wanting a 5" barrel for accuracy and I want a single stack for slimness.

I guess I could have one with a safety, but I would have to carry it with the safety always off. The handgun, like my others, is for the purposes only of self defense. One less safety, one less chance of the weapon not firing when I need it to.

I really like these, especially the black one.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 20&t=21388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just was wanting something like it without the thumb and grip safeties. I guess nothing like that is out there?

No disparagement intended, honestly, but you really don't know anything about handguns, do you?

My advice is to seek out a competent instructor. Before you even pick up a handgun, you need to ingrain the basics of safety and handling. Much more follows, but you gotta be able to walk before you can run.

Just because I don't know alot about 45's , doesnt mean Im so incompetent that I need an instructor before I even pickup a handgun. Ive got my CHL, Ive got my commissioned security license, I had to pass the same SIG course FWPD has to with 90% accuracy just to carry a weapon at my work. I believe I am "walking" just fine.

I am wanting a 5" barrel for accuracy and I want a single stack for slimness.

I guess I could have one with a safety, but I would have to carry it with the safety always off. The handgun, like my others, is for the purposes only of self defense. One less safety, one less chance of the weapon not firing when I need it to.

I really like these, especially the black one.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 20&t=21388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just was wanting something like it without the thumb and grip safeties. I guess nothing like that is out there?

You don't need a 5" barrel for accuracy. A Kimber Ultra Carry with a 3.5" barrel will shoot more accurately than you can, and you'll likely get tired of carrying around all that extra steel pretty quickly.

Skiprr's advice below is the best way for you to work through the options to meet your needs without spending a ton of money learning on your own what a knowledgeable instructor could help you figure out in a couple of hours.

yea, a 5" barrel is a long gun, but self defense doesn't necessary mean carrying it around. It would stay home most of the time.

For everyone else who offered their advice, I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

[Furyataurus]

I would still look at the HK45. It sorta has a single stack magazine, not exactly side by side but definitely not one on top of the other. The grip is updated and I find it really comfortable to hold and the safety is about in the same position as a 1911's.

[Excaliber]

yea, a 5" barrel is a long gun, but self defense doesn't necessary mean carrying it around. It would stay home most of the time.

For everyone else who offered their advice, I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

The main reason I suggest considering shorter barrel lengths is that it considerably expands the list of guns that would fit your criteria e.g. the Kahr CW and PM45. However, if you're looking for a home defense gun rather than a carry gun, the extra barrel length and weight of the full size guns may be desirable for recoil dampening rather than accuracy, which is not challenged at in the home distances with any quality gun.

If concealment and carry weight are not important considerations, you might also take a look at the double stack guns that have ergonomically designed grips like the Springfield XD and the S&W M&P .45. The S&W has interchangeable backstraps to allow you to pick the grip size that best fits your hand, and is available with or without a thumb safety.

[Mike from Texas]

I am wanting a 5" barrel for accuracy and I want a single stack for slimness.

I guess I could have one with a safety, but I would have to carry it with the safety always off. The handgun, like my others, is for the purposes only of self defense. One less safety, one less chance of the weapon not firing when I need it to.

I really like these, especially the black one.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 20&t=21388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just was wanting something like it without the thumb and grip safeties. I guess nothing like that is out there?

No disparagement intended, honestly, but you really don't know anything about handguns, do you?

My advice is to seek out a competent instructor. Before you even pick up a handgun, you need to ingrain the basics of safety and handling. Much more follows, but you gotta be able to walk before you can run.

Just because I don't know alot about 45's , doesnt mean Im so incompetent that I need an instructor before I even pickup a handgun. Ive got my CHL, Ive got my commissioned security license, I had to pass the same SIG course FWPD has to with 90% accuracy just to carry a weapon at my work. I believe I am "walking" just fine.

I am wanting a 5" barrel for accuracy and I want a single stack for slimness.

I guess I could have one with a safety, but I would have to carry it with the safety always off. The handgun, like my others, is for the purposes only of self defense. One less safety, one less chance of the weapon not firing when I need it to.

I really like these, especially the black one.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 20&t=21388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just was wanting something like it without the thumb and grip safeties. I guess nothing like that is out there?

You don't need a 5" barrel for accuracy. A Kimber Ultra Carry with a 3.5" barrel will shoot more accurately than you can, and you'll likely get tired of carrying around all that extra steel pretty quickly.

Skiprr's advice below is the best way for you to work through the options to meet your needs without spending a ton of money learning on your own what a knowledgeable instructor could help you figure out in a couple of hours.

yea, a 5" barrel is a long gun, but self defense doesn't necessary mean carrying it around. It would stay home most of the time.

For everyone else who offered their advice, I appreciate you taking the time to do so.

If it's a home defense gun, then why is single stack a factor?

You may want to look into the Para guns with the LDA trigger which is a light double action trigger and has the option of using the safety or not. This one is a commander length and will be plenty accurate. http://www.paraord.com/new/product_pistol.php?id=16" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Besides, at shooting distances with a shooting in the home you don't need a match grade pistol accuracy since most encounters will be up close and personal. If you're used to Glocks, then I'd be all over a Glock 21SF (short frame not slim frame BTW). My wife shoots my G21SF even with my 10mm conversion upper on it and is scary accurate with it.

[asleepatthereel]

I am wanting a 5" barrel for accuracy and I want a single stack for slimness.

I guess I could have one with a safety, but I would have to carry it with the safety always off. The handgun, like my others, is for the purposes only of self defense. One less safety, one less chance of the weapon not firing when I need it to.

I really like these, especially the black one.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 20&t=21388" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Just was wanting something like it without the thumb and grip safeties. I guess nothing like that is out there?

Those would be 1911s. Why would you want to carry a safety equiped firearm with the safety off? If you practice enough, the time it takes to disengage it is nill. I find the statement about your weapon not firing when you need it to disturbing to say the least. You are licensed both as a citizen and a security officer to carry a weapon. You should be familiar enough with said weapon to remember to disengage your safety when needed. Please dont carry a 1911 without the safety on (up). Otherwise there is a very good chance of the weapon firing when you DONT want/need it to.

Im gonna have to agree with Skiprr on this one. Sorry if that hurts, but just because you are familiar with the two handguns you say you own, doesnt mean some instruction wouldnt help you. Never let yourself get to a point where you feel that needing some instruction is something to be ashamed of. You are getting a little bit just by asking a question here. I have a 'few' 1911s, and have been shooting them for a long time, but dont think I wouldnt listen if someone could teach this old dog a new trick.

[yerasimos]

I understand the seductive lure of the single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP. I appreciate its history, myth, lore and legend. I like the crisp single action triggers they sometimes have, and I appreciate the craftsmanship of the people who make these handguns. However, I choose to appreciate these qualities from a distance and without spending a dime of my own on them. I do not like the idea of possibly fumbling a manual safety under pressure, regardless of how much training one has had, so I can understand the original poster's preference for the lack of these features. I do not care for the high prices these fine handguns can command, or the extra expense for ammunition. I especially do not care for latent unreliability born from chasing ephemeral "accuracy" that could make the difference when shooting long-range standards in an IPSC competition (where these guns truly rule), but will be useless when fighting at bad breath distances to preserve one's own life.

I have to ask, how is it that a Glock 23 (.40 S&W) would be considered deficient for home defense purposes, while a single-stack .45 ACP would be sufficient? If it is caliber, I figure a 12 ga shotgun would trump them both. Install a Knoxx recoil reducing stock, and shorter-statured family members can use it more comfortably.

Looking at the personal protection problem rationally, rather than through a prism clouded with myths, legends, gurus and gun magazine photography, I cannot justify for myself going down the path of the single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP, especially at the higher price points. If other people like these guns, they should continue using them. As far as I am concerned, it is still a free country, regardless of which group of fools won the last election.

[asleepatthereel]

Ive never had to fumble with my safety to disengage it, including the one adrenaline enhanced time I had to point it at someone. Its all about muscle memory. I dont even remember disengaging the safety, thats how smooth it was. The point is, with practice comes proficiency. Personally, I would rather have the safety than a pistol without it. None of my 1911s display the latent unreliability that you speak of, but even the most boneheaded of us 1911 shooters know that there are bad examples out there that have been tampered with or neglected to the point that they can become unreliable. And there are some questionable manufactures that produce 1911 clones that are garbage.

As for the Glock 23, for me anyway, I dont want want a plastic pistol for my daily carry. I guess its just a personal thing more than anything as it is a fine pistol, and the .40SW is more than proficient for home defense. I keep a Walther P99 DAO holstered to the underside of my bed. It shoots .40 and Ive only had problems with it in my wifes hands because of her weak grip causing it to stovepipe. It has no external safety, but that doesnt make it an inferior home defense tool. To my way of thinking, the heavy trigger pull of the DAO is comparable to a safety in that you are really pulling the trigger to fire it.

Im not a big fan of using a shotgun in a house. I have way too many things in there I dont want to destroy spraying pellets down the hallway through doors and walls. Im not saying Im against it. I have a coach gun with two rounds of bird shot within reaching distance of the front door, but you would have to look long and hard to find it if you didnt know where it was.

My reasons for liking the 1911 go back to the stories my Grandfather told me about fighting the Japanese in the pacific island campaign. According to him it saved his life on one occasion, and you can bet it saved many more over the span of the war. I knew as a child after hearing all his stories that one day I would have one.

Back to the OPs question, I think you should do some research on the Ruger P345. Its double action so you can carry it with the hammer down, is single stack, slim, and very well built for the money. Its what I shot with before I could afford my 'triplets'. It was a very dependable and accurate pistol. I think I got it for right at $500 NIB. It may fit the bill for what your wanting. Whatever you decide to go with, I cant stress enough that you need to practice, practice, and then practice some more with it. If it has an external safety, use it. Its there for a reason. If you practice with it enough, disengaging the safety will come as natural as drawing it from the holster.

[yerasimos]

Most of my earlier post was directed to the individual who started the thread (Glock 23). However . . .

Ive never had to fumble with my safety to disengage it, including the one adrenaline enhanced time I had to point it at someone. Its all about muscle memory. I dont even remember disengaging the safety, thats how smooth it was.

I am interested in better understanding what happened here. In this confrontation you speak of, who had the initiative, and how great was the disparity in initiative? Was this on property under your control, such as your home, ranch or farm---or did this happen in an environment and under circumstances that were unknown or not subject to your control (beyond whether or not you would have to shoot)?

[Skiprr]

I understand the seductive lure of the single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP. I appreciate its history, myth, lore and legend. I like the crisp single action triggers they sometimes have, and I appreciate the craftsmanship of the people who make these handguns. However, I choose to appreciate these qualities from a distance and without spending a dime of my own on them.

I understand.

But when I loaned you my Kimber Supermatch at PSC a couple of years ago, tell me that you didn't put your first five rounds into a nickel-sized hole on the target.

I was darned impressed!

I think you were, too.

[yerasimos]

I understand the seductive lure of the single-stack 1911 in .45 ACP. I appreciate its history, myth, lore and legend. I like the crisp single action triggers they sometimes have, and I appreciate the craftsmanship of the people who make these handguns. However, I choose to appreciate these qualities from a distance and without spending a dime of my own on them.

But when I loaned you my Kimber Supermatch at PSC a couple of years ago, tell me that you didn't put your first five rounds into a nickel-sized hole on the target.

I was darned impressed!

I think you were, too.

100% true. In retrospect, I should have written the last sentence in that quote as something like, "I prefer to appreciate these qualities via other people's money!"

Did I make a serious offer for that Kimber? I cannot say I have seriously window-shopped 1911s before or since, though I have given the matter some thought, and came to my current conclusion given earlier in the thread.

Hope it is still working well for you.

[asleepatthereel]

Most of my earlier post was directed to the individual who started the thread (Glock 23). However . . .

Ive never had to fumble with my safety to disengage it, including the one adrenaline enhanced time I had to point it at someone. Its all about muscle memory. I dont even remember disengaging the safety, thats how smooth it was.

I am interested in better understanding what happened here. In this confrontation you speak of, who had the initiative, and how great was the disparity in initiative? Was this on property under your control, such as your home, ranch or farm---or did this happen in an environment and under circumstances that were unknown or not subject to your control (beyond whether or not you would have to shoot)?

Here ya go
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... hp?t=19508" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Skiprr]

But when I loaned you my Kimber Supermatch at PSC a couple of years ago, tell me that you didn't put your first five rounds into a nickel-sized hole on the target.

I was darned impressed!

100% true. In retrospect, I should have written the last sentence in that quote as something like, "I prefer to appreciate these qualities via other people's money!"

Did I make a serious offer for that Kimber?

Yep. A flat $2,800, free and clear. But since it's been a while, I won't hold you to it. I'll let it go for $2,600.

Deal?

[yerasimos]

Yep. A flat $2,800, free and clear. But since it's been a while, I won't hold you to it. I'll let it go for $2,600.

Deal?

After all the TARP, bailout and stimulus scrip has wound its way through the economy, sure!

By the way, good work, AATR. That is a useful datapoint.

Can you tell I am still in no rush to buy my first 1911?