More car trouble

[mr.72]

Right on, FlynJay.

Intermittent problems like this are very difficult to diagnose because you don't know if they are exhibiting when you are trying to test it.

Given your recent reply about the ignition switch, then yes, the fuel pump is definitely tied to "something behind the ignition switch". The problem with the windshield wipers is probably the ignition switch.

Here's how that works. Your ignition switch has multiple positions. Each position turns something "on", or some series of things "on" and allows them to stay on. Power flows through the ignition switch and out of it into a bunch or relays that are mostly plugged in under the dash (like the windshield wiper relay) or in a remote location (under the hood, etc.). When you turn the key from "off" to "ACC", then it closes the circuit and turns on a range of relays that allows those things to run (lights, radio, etc.). WHen you turn from "ACC" to "ON" then it turns on a bunch more relays in addition to the ACC relays (fuel pump is among these), and then when it goes to "START" (momentary position) the starter relay is fired.

So any failure of the power supplying the ignition switch will kill all of these things.

Any failure of the ignition switch can kill a range of these things at any given time.

I still think your problem is electrical.

[seamusTX]

BTW, habitually keeping your ignition key on a heavy key ring will eventually damage the switch.

It's best to keep the ignition key on its own ring for a number of reasons. Doing so also lets you easily give the key to valets or mechanics without also giving them your house keys.

- Jim

[mr.72]

Well it could wind up being the ignition switch (likely), or wiring/connectors anywhere between the battery and the ignition switch, or wiring/connectors anywhere between the ignition switch and the relays that run whatever is not working.

Most likely is the switch itself.

BTW there is probably a main fuse for the whole car (60A or something) up under the hood, might check that and make sure it's not corroded. Corroded battery cables can also cause intermittent starting/ignition related problems and are well worth checking and cleaning. My dad used to shame me all the time when I would have an unstartable car and he'd just clean the battery cables and viola. That was back in the day when I drove old cars all the time. I guess now that I have a 10 year old car with 100K+ I am almost back to that point.

[WildBill]

FWIW, I had a similar problem which finally turned out to be the ignition module. The high voltage can break down the plastic insulation and cause intermittent shorts. Once it was properly diagnosed it was a relatively quick and inexpensive fix.

[WarHawk-AVG]

I thought about something that might make a difference.

I just remembered that I can take the key out of my car while it is running without any problems, as well as when it is raining and I turn my windshield wipers on, sometimes they won't actually work until I jiggle the key in the ignition, and then they turn on.

Would the fuel pump be tied to something behind my ignition switch like my windshield wipers are?

Btw, car started just fine this morning in 28 degree weather. I turned the ignition on until all the electrics turned on and tried to listen for the fuel pump kicking on but couldn't hear anything, but it still started without complaint.

Uggh!

You just told on yourself right there!

You have a bad key ignition switch...replace the entire thing and I guarantee 99% of your problems go away...if/when it wears to where the key can be pulled out while driving means the electrical connections inside the thing may be either loose and not touching well or off alignment and you turn the key where you normally think it should be..but a few degrees more and it engages (thus the jiggling making different things work)

Replace that piece and then see if your problem exists

[Keith B]

If you can find a good locksmith, they can usually re-key the cylinder a lot cheaper than getting one from the dealer. A lot of times it is just worn wafers and not anything else. Also, if it is a smart-key you may not have to reprogram it like you would with a full ignition switch change-out.

[lunchbox]

have fun with that

[Rockrz]

other than these 2 suggestions, is there anything else I could be looking at that could be the problem?

Yes, find a qualified mechanic that specializes on electrical and performance issues
and pay him an hour or two in labor to diagnos the problem so you don't have to
spend hundreds (maybe more) guessing what is going on.

First thing to ask the guy, before agreeing to let him look at it, is...doe he have
access to technical and troubleshooting information on this make and model
through Mitchell Manuals or through the manufacturer.

If he doesn't, there's a strong chance he's going to just guess...using your
money, to throw a bunch of new parts on there and hope it gets fixed.

A monkee could almost do that, so it pays to find a guy that nows
how to research and test to eliminate the guesswork.

[bdickens]

"Test, don't guess" is my motto.

If the car will start every time with the ether, then the problem is most likely fuel-related, although it could be a weak spark. It is definitely not the ignition switch or the starter.

You mentioned replacing the plugs and wires. Did you check the cap and rotor? If they are worn, you will get a hard start too.

[mr.72]

Byron is right, if it starts EVERY TIME with starter fluid, then it is likely a fuel delivery problem.

However, the fuel delivery problem is just as likely to be electrical as it is to be anything else.

There could also be the possibility that the problem is not fuel related, and it's a coincidence that starter fluid seems to help.

[Keith B]

I guess I missed something. When you say it won't start, you don't mean it won't turn over, it just cranks and cranks without starting unless you put ether in it?

One thing I have on my Suburban is a loss in fuel pressure if it sits for 3-4 days. It will 'over-crank' until fuel builds up. One thing you might try is if you can turn on the key without trying to start it (all the way up without that last little bit) and let it sit for 20-30 second, then try starting it. If that works, then you may be loosing pressure in your fuel system and need to replace the fuel pump of check the delivery system for leaks.