OpenCarry.org organizing demonstration

[Charles L. Cotton]

Only two days after the deadline for filing bills, a poster on OpenCarry.org is trying to organize a demonstration carrying long guns "around Dallas or Fort Worth." He goes on to say "[t]his needs to happen at least every other month from now until the next legislation begins." The thread quickly became one of carrying pre-1899 handguns rather than long guns. http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum51/23112.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I understand the frustration at not having a bill they wanted filed, but what on earth is this going to accomplish? How does this benefit passage of open-carry in 2011? It doesn't! It's more in-your-face tactics and it will not be well-received by the public, the media, law enforcement or the Legislature. At least SA-TX is trying to convince people to work with the police first, rather than have them get "mob-with-guns" calls (not man-with-a-gun). If they're going to do something counterproductive, then at least his suggestion may reduce the damage.

This would not be the first time a demonstration was held in which guns were an integral part. During the Republican National Convention in Houston several years ago, Quanell X had his New Black Panthers march to the George R. Brown Convention Center holding rifles and shotguns, being very careful not to point them at anyone. The legislative response was to amend the State's preemption statute to allow cities to ban firearms from parades and political gatherings. (CHLs are exempt and can carry.) So a bunch of guys walking around with AR-15s and “riotguns” certainly got the attention they wanted, including a lot of media coverage. In return, the citizens of Texas got a new restrictive gun law.

I understand that some people believe a pre-1899 gun is not a "firearm" for purposes of TPC §46.02. By extension of that logic, it also is not a "handgun" for purposes of TPC §46.035(a) "intentional failure to conceal" by a CHL. Whether this theory is supported by case law I do not know, nor do I care frankly. What does concern me is the response this type of demonstration may receive. If open-carry supporters couldn't even get a bill filed, why in the world would they expect this type of demonstration to be well-received by our elected officials in Austin? Just as the long gun demonstration by Quanell X and his New Black Panthers brought us a new restrictive gun law, an open-carry demonstration using pre-1899 handguns may well see a repeal of TPC §46.01(3) that exempts certain pre-1899 guns and replicas from the definition of "firearm." That is a far more likely response to an ill-advised open-carry demonstration than passage of an open-carry bill. Like it or not, agree with it or not, fair or not, this is precisely the type of media coverage that will get all open-carry supporters labeled as "nut jobs" with general non-carrying public and the Legislature, because of the actions of a few.

This is yet another attempt to force upon the public and the legislature that which OpenCarry.org has not been able to accomplish through the political process. This is a very poor start for 2011 and it is not a method that will attract support for this issue by the TSRA or NRA. Neither organization will allow its good reputation, and therefore its effectiveness, be diminished by attaching its name to an issue that others have made a pariah in Austin.

TSRA/NRA and OpenCarry.org represent polar opposites not only in terms of their legislative methods, but also in terms of effectiveness. Texas open-carry supporters should compare the legislative records of TSRA/NRA to that of OpenCarry.org, and choose the model they wish to follow for 2011. Then form your own Texas-based, Texas-only organization, roll up your sleeves and do this the right way, the Texas way. If you put this group together and if it has absolutely no connection to OpenCarry.org, then I'll meet with your leaders and offer suggestions. Or you can strap on your 1873 Colt, walk around Dallas, go to jail, and kill open-carry for 2011 and beyond.

Chas.

[TheArmedFarmer]

...form your own Texas-based, Texas-only organization, roll up your sleeves and do this the right way, the Texas way. If you put this group together and if it has absolutely no connection to OpenCarry.org, then I'll meet with your leaders and offer suggestions.

SA-TX, you listening? Chas just extended you an offer. Let us know what you need from us.

[GrillKing]

It's more in-your-face tactics and it will not be well-received by the public, the media, law enforcement or the Legislature.

Or by many folks on this forum, including me. I believe in the goal, but the means on this one is has great potential to hurt other meaningful legislation, IMHO.

I strongly urge those at Opencarry.org to rethink their strategy. When you don't have other RKBA proponents on your side because of the methodology, and the consequences, you need to rethink your approach.

[frazzled]

Public demonstrations are fine. Public demonstrations with firearms may not have the effect that is intended. Everyone should bring a copy of the Bill of Rights with them etc.

On the other hand if they protested in Austin, any protest in Austin that doesn't involve some fur faced tree hugger college boy (oh jeez I'm channeling my Dad) is a good thing....

[nitrogen]

...form your own Texas-based, Texas-only organization, roll up your sleeves and do this the right way, the Texas way. If you put this group together and if it has absolutely no connection to OpenCarry.org, then I'll meet with your leaders and offer suggestions.

SA-TX, you listening? Chas just extended you an offer. Let us know what you need from us.

I'm in.

[Captain Matt]

They should do empty holster protests instead. It works for campus carry.

[frazzled]

Good idea (empty holsters)

[stevie_d_64]

Perceptions by those who do not agree with any of our positions, is just as important as those who agree with us in principle...Those who can effect change saw a very fragmented and unclear direction for this issue...Even though it was a simple concept, it was difficult to make the effort to change it to favor us this time...

Like I have said all along, both sides of the discussion had very good points, I almost thought we might even get our day in court...But that didn't happen, so we need to move on and be ready to support what CAN have happen this session...

I hope we learned something from this, because I believe it may be a long time before this issue can get any traction again...

But we still have our concealed status intact...And I hope we protect that at all costs, and with a cohesive, coordinated effort...

Without anyone else saying so, this idea to go parading around public (at port arms) is something I do not support, just to make a statement...That sounds too much like sour grapes to me...We are smarter than this folks...Quannel X was, and still is a putz, he may not know it, but we do...We do not need to emulate him and his ilk...

I have a very long history of activism and public outreach for conservative ideals, and even though I believe this idea is an exercise of your First Amendment rights, no one is going to look beyond that if your core message is to promote your Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms...Especially if it only happens up in Dallas/Ft Worth...

We are not going to present a positive perception to the public if there are some who wish this to be the result...

We got very close this time...I bet we can come up with some pretty good ideas and get some help on the inside to get the issue past the legislative pitfalls and unintended consequenses of passing a change to the law like this...

Charles said something again up in Dallas this last month...And I stand to be corrected, but this open carry thing was in the original law that was written way back in the 80's, early 90's and got dropped as a concession to get the '95 "concealed only" version passed...I believe if we go back and try to address those issues that got this provision dropped back then, we might know how to build a better case, which was somethign I believe was NOT done this time...

Just my opinion...

[tfrazier]

Ditto, Charles!

I wish people would imagine what they would look like on a television screen before they started making a big ruckus in public.

No one wants to see a crazy person holding a gun, and that's exactly what this will look like to the average Joe, a bunch of crazy people holding guns, regardless of whether they're just standing there doing nothing or marching around chanting.

It will get big coverage, and there will be a sudden influx of legislation aiming to do just the opposite of what the demonstrators want.

Not to mention the commentary we'll endure from media in other states talking about Texans all being gun crazy.

On the other hand, many folks won't lift a finger to protect their rights. They'll talk the talk all day long and repeat the 'cold, dead hands' phrase every time the subject comes up, but they won't lift a finger to write their congressman or join the NRA or TSRA. I'd wager if all the folks who talk about how they'll never give up their guns actually got REASONABLY involved in the political process we could get everything we needed done, not just in Austin, but in DC as well.

[nitrogen]

It might work if everyone dressed up nicely, like in a suit jacket and tie, for instance, and not like a bunch of scary gun nuts.

Or maybe it'd be scarier. who knows. It worked to some degree for homosexuals, but it also fired up opposition as well. I don't think it'd be the right step, at least right now.

[stevie_d_64]

Point of information...

Quannel the tenth didn't have his thugs parading around with their long guns to promote the Second Amendment...He is a political pimp who needed his bodyguards to look as intimidating as possible around a crowd of people who didn't agree with Q the 10ths politics...I was there and saw what the effect was...

I do not believe any public demonstration can be effectively perceived to support any Second Amendment cause or issue...The media, if they choose to cover it will absolutely not get it right; empty holsters or long guns carried at port arms...

This whole issue can be resolved as stated in earlier discussions and other threads...The ideas are already in there...

It just needs to be packaged up and presented to those who can effect the change...Not just, "Hey you guys, go do this!!! Or else!!!"

[bdickens]

Opencarry.org screwed up their chance this time around with their antics so what do they want to do now? Act even worse!

Remember those bumper stickers from the late '70s, - early '80s: "Welcome to Texas. Now go home?"

[nitrogen]

I had some time to think about this and solidify my thoughts.

The problem with an open carry "demonstration" is this:
Remember: The "sheeple" see gun = violence. We need to attack that FIRST, and when that preconception is gone, lots of other problems will fall away.

This is one of the reasons I have a HUGE problem with the "Molon Labe FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" talk. Not that I disagree with it at all, but because it adds to the whole "gun (owners) = violence" preconception that "sheeple have.

There is a great photo book, called Armed America by Kyle Cassidy. It shows many normal, everyday gun owners, some of which are scary, and many of which are "normal looking people"

Anyway, back to my point. The reason this type of protest will NOT work is that it will only scare the "sheeple" and won't bring anyone new to the cause.

Remember what started the severe gun control measures in California, right?

Yep, a bunch of "scary black folks" parading around with rifles. California LOST open carry because of this. Don Mulford submitted a bill to outlaw open carry, and then-gov Reagan signed it.

[seamusTX]

Remember what started the severe gun control measures in California, right?
Yep, a bunch of "scary black folks" parading around with rifles. California LOST open carry because of this. Don Mulford submitted a bill to outlaw open carry, and then-gov Reagan signed it.

Good point. The Black Panthers didn't accomplish much, but they inadvertently advanced the gun control cause.

Texas has the least restrictions on carrying long guns of any state. In fact, we have practically no restrictions. That is a point of attack for the antis.

I have never seen a group more tone deaf and belligerent than the opencarry.org people.

- Jim

[Oldgringo]

I had some time to think about this and solidify my thoughts.

The problem with an open carry "demonstration" is this:
Remember: The "sheeple" see gun = violence. We need to attack that FIRST, and when that preconception is gone, lots of other problems will fall away.

This is one of the reasons I have a HUGE problem with the "Molon Labe FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS" talk. Not that I disagree with it at all, but because it adds to the whole "gun (owners) = violence" preconception that "sheeple have.

There is a great photo book, called Armed America by Kyle Cassidy. It shows many normal, everyday gun owners, some of which are scary, and many of which are "normal looking people"

Anyway, back to my point. The reason this type of protest will NOT work is that it will only scare the "sheeple" and won't bring anyone new to the cause.

Remember what started the severe gun control measures in California, right?

Yep, a bunch of "scary black folks" parading around with rifles. California LOST open carry because of this. Don Mulford submitted a bill to outlaw open carry, and then-gov Reagan signed it.

I agree totally with Nitrogen on this point. You can bet your {self } that the media will have blanket coverage of any gun toting protest and the negative spin off will be terrible on a global level...for all gun owners everywhere. Not only will this demonstration NOT bring anyone new to the cause, it has the high probability of driving present supporters away.

An armed protest march is a terrible and self-defeating idea if there ever was one. Deal me out!