State Militia?

[AEA]

How hard would it be to start a State Militia that would be legally recognized?

With the escalating Gang problems and Border problems for some Southern States, would a Civilian State Milita be useful/effective? I don't mean the National Guard, but CHL's who are armed and ready at all times.........

With over 300,000 CHL holders in Texas and a large number of those being active and/or ex-military/LEO's (already trained) and always armed, would this benefit the security of the State and send the BG's off to other States not as well prepared?

Is it even worth thinking about?

[stevie_d_64]

I get a sense of what you are saying, but I'll play the devil's advocate here and ask you a question...

"What would this civilian militia be tasked, chartered or commissioned to do???"

Remember the only function our CHL does is keep the state off our back (generally speaking) in regards to carrying a firearm concealed on our person for lawful self-defensive purposes...

We are not law enforcement in regards to taking care of things like gangs and the border, etc etc...

Even thought we may be law enforcement, military (active, reserve or veterans) that somewhat know what we are doing with these weapons...

Regardless of how well a job is being done on those issues, we must be supportive of those who are actually trying (and in some or most cases succeeding) to do the job...

In my opinion being "in" a gang is not illegal...Obviously the environment is condusive to illegal acts as individuals and groups...So how do we address that???

Borders are agreements between sovereign countries and governments...How they are respected is beyond our control (in some cases)...Yet in our case we have ordinary people and groups doing illegal things that do not respect that aspect of our borders...

I have the answer to that problem, and for the last 15 years or so, have been active in trying to get that idea thru the system that does not want to solve the problem...My CHL is a non-issue in anything I do in that regard...

I'm not really getting on your case, I just sense, and agree with you, that the frustration level for people in our small part of the world is getting worse and worse each day...

[AEA]

All good points/questions!

The answers I do not have........

I was just thinking that we have more legally armed individuals in Texas than all the Police Agencies combined! We are always armed. Different folks are more prepared/trained/experienced than others.......

I was considering a State Emergency that needs defense from "something/someone" immediately and not wait for the National Guard to mobilize. We would already be where the problem is, in good numbers in most cases.

Maybe something like a registered group of people that could assist LEO's in such an emergency?

I dunno, I could be way off base here on several fronts. But I see more of a need for this resource that is already in place everyday I read what is happening along our borders and with organized Gangs in our Cities.

[Liberty]

All good points/questions!

The answers I do not have........

I was just thinking that we have more legally armed individuals in Texas than all the Police Agencies combined! We are always armed. Different folks are more prepared/trained/experienced than others.......

I was considering a State Emergency that needs defense from "something/someone" immediately and not wait for the National Guard to mobilize. We would already be where the problem is, in good numbers in most cases.

Maybe something like a registered group of people that could assist LEO's in such an emergency?

I dunno, I could be way off base here on several fronts. But I see more of a need for this resource that is already in place everyday I read what is happening along our borders and with organized Gangs in our Cities.

Its been my experiance that they would see us as threats, Paid fire departments hated us volunteers, fought against us in every way. In the legislature and on city councils. While there are individuals who understand and respect volunteerism Agencys and chiefs want bigger departments not more help. Unions want more members

[AEA]

Good point. Forgot about that aspect.......

[ninemm]

...
I was considering a State Emergency that needs defense from "something/someone" immediately and not wait for the National Guard to mobilize. ...

I wonder how such an organization would affect the participant's life and health insurance rates.

[KD5NRH]

In my opinion being "in" a gang is not illegal...

Last time I looked at one of those lists of ways to recognize a gang, Boy Scout troops qualified, as did every law enforcement agency.

[seamusTX]

We already have a state militia, the Texas State Guard. This is not the National Guard. The President of the United States cannot give it orders. It answers to the Governor.

It is open to all citizens between ages 17 and 60.

Local law enforcement can also summon a posse when necessary. In that case, some police powers are delegated to the posse. This is still done in rural areas in emergencies. I can't see any urban sheriff or police chief doing it.

You are free to have a citizen patrol. The problems with that are that non-LEO citizens

• have no power to arrest for misdemeanors
• have no power to search
• cannot give enforceable orders to law-abiding people in public or on the private property of others
• lack the legal protections that LEOs have in performing their dutes

That pretty much leaves you able to watch and call 911 for suspicious activity. You certainly could arrest for a felony committed within view, but I doubt many criminals would commit a crime with a group watching them. The crooks would figure out who you were pretty quickly.

Enforcement of immigration and customs is reserved to the feds by the Constitution.

Steve, it is in fact illegal to be in a gang, as defined in PC Ch. 71. For the legal definition of gang to kick in, some members of the group must routinely engage in illegal activity. That is a slippery definition.

There is also a federal definition of a racketeer-influenced or corrupt organization (RICO).

With all the limitations, I think the best that you could do is to what neighborhood watch or the groups that call themselves Minutemen are doing.

- Jim
[Edited to correct typos]

[AEA]

Thanks Jim for the details.

I just turned 61 (today) so I cannot join the Texas State Guard.......

I guess I will just continue to concentrate on my own personal defense and forget about trying to help others that I do not know......

[atxgun]

Thanks Jim for the details.

I just turned 61 (today) so I cannot join the Texas State Guard.......

I guess I will just continue to concentrate on my own personal defense and forget about trying to help others that I do not know......

Well, happy birthday!

[atxgun]

You are free to have a citizen patrol. The problems with that are that non-LEO citizens

• have no power to arrest for misdemeanors
• have no power to search
• cannot give enforceable orders to law-abiding people in public or on the private property of others
• lack the legal protections that LEOs have in performing their dutes

That pretty much leaves you able to watch and call 911 for suspicious activity. You certainly could arrest for a felony committed within view, but I doubt many criminals would commit a crime with a group watching them. The crooks would figure out who you were pretty quickly.

I view these limitations as a good thing. If you want to be LEO then be one. Otherwise I don't want you to be able to search me or give me orders.

[seamusTX]

Happy Birthday.

Depending upon what skills you have, the TSG might make an exception. You would have to contact them about it. A lot of guys in their sixties are in better mental and physical shape than some guys in their 40s.

There is a middle road between ignoring your neighbors and trying to act as unofficial police. You can form a group patterned after Neighborhood Watch. (You have to agree not to carry weapons in the official Neighborhood Watch.) You can set up a phone tree for emergencies or suspicious activity. You can also organize block parties, which go a long way toward getting neighbors to know one another. Anything that gets honest people out of their houses discourages crooks.

If you do any of this, you will quickly find out what everyone who runs a volunteer organization finds out: Most people who join won't actually do much, and some will turn out to be jerks and goofballs.

Our neighborhood association* meets with a police community service representative at least once a year to discuss our concerns. Everyone who wants it has his phone number, and we can report when we think someone might be dealing drugs (the biggest recurring problem around here).

I have to say, IMHO, if you even mention being armed to the police, they will not encourage you. They may even tell you not to patrol the neighborhood armed, though they can't enforce such an order.

I know one police office who has said many times that everyone who is qualified for a CHL should get one and carry, but his view does not represent the official position of the police department.

*This is a volunteer neighborhood association, not a bunch of officious nitpickers who tell you to mow your lawn more often.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

I view these limitations as a good thing. If you want to be LEO then be one. Otherwise I don't want you to be able to search me or give me orders.

I agree. The reason that we have professional police departments answerable to elected officials is that vigilante groups turned out to be unjust in many cases, and often turned to criminality, including protection rackets and lynching.

The word vigilante originally did not have a negative connotation. The behavior of some vigilantes made it a dirty word.

- Jim

[mr surveyor]

I had all but forgotten about the Texas State Guard. My Dad and I both joined back in the late 70's, and attended a couple of events...but apparantly our local group just fizzled and I never heard anything more. I wonder if I have been considered AWOL for the last 30 years?

[seamusTX]

You can't be AWOL if you didn't have orders, and I'm sure they knew where to find you if they wanted to.

You reminded me, there is another militia-like program: The Civilian Marksmanship Program. This is not an organized militia, but an active chapter would form a core group of people with weapons and known marksmanship skills that could organize itself in case of emergency.

At one time, nearly every high school and college had a chapter. Most are dormant now, but they still exist on paper. (I have always wondered what would happen if I tried to reactivate the program at my local high school. I suspect the school board would need Depends.)

- Jim