Who Knows How The ACLU Got It's Start?

[Abraham]

Who here knows the beginning history and name of the ACLU originator?

[boomerang]

The ACLU or the NCLB? Or the earlier CLB?

[nitrogen]

The roots of the ACLU can be traced back to an anti-war movement during WWI and a group called the AUAM, (American Union Against Militarism) It didn't help that this orginaztion had marxists and communists in it. President Woodrow Wilson at the time considered political descent unamerican, and proceeded to censor such orginizations. The Sedition acts was a quite un-consititutional federal law passed at the urging of President Woodrow Wilson banning decent against the war. Two members of the AUAM, Roger Baldwin and Crystal Eastman, formed a sub orginization of the AUAM, then called the NCLB. (National Civil Liberties Bureau) to give legal advice and help to people charged under the Sedition acts.

Some folks call Roger Baldwin a communist. He did visit the Soviet Union in 1927, and wrote "Liberty under the Soviets" and later denounced the communists in his book, "A New Slavery"

Crystal Eastman was a bit more of a colorful character; being a feminist and a self-pronounced socialist, and anti-war activist. She also faught for evil things like woman's sufferage. She did also endorse socialism and forms of communism later in her life.

The NCLB and AUAM split due to a falling out of their members, as well as Baldwin serving jail time for draft dodging.

Some of the evil and unamerican things the ACLU has fought for include:
Loving v. Virginia
Brown vs. Board of Education
Miranda v. Arizona
Defending Col. Oliver North against his conviction due to tainted testamony
Defending Rush Limbaugh's privacy rights when the government siezed his medical records

Lots of people have problems with the ACLU because they defend "ugly" folks.
Just because someone's a communist, or a KKK member, or whathave you, they still have the same rights that we have; and those rights should be protected. Our bill of rights should be protected whenever ANYONE'S rights under them is infringed; even if we do not like them.

[Abraham]

Today's incarnation hasn't evolved past it's leftist creation. While it wraps itself in the Constitution to make it appear more appealing to the uninformed, it's very anti-capitalist. It's core doctrine is still socialism.

"Some folks call Roger Baldwin a communist. Crystal Eastman was a bit more of a colorful character; being a feminist and a self-pronounced socialist, and anti-war activist."

These two radicals formed the ACLU. Yes, it's does some work that allows it some credibility. All con men know in order to win over a victim, you have to sweeten the pot...

At it's core, the ACLU is against the American way of life, but it has it's fall guys: Lenin put it another way, often saying that capitalist dupes "will sell us the rope with which to hang them." He called them "the useful idiots."

Sadly, many promoters of the ACLU fall into this category.

(if it walk like a duck, quacks like a duck, well, you know the rest...

[nitrogen]

Abraham: Not a very good response; full of bluster and empty on references.

You might want to try again; this time giving references that support your suppositions.

I can already tell you that I doubt you'll make any changes in my thoughts about the org.

I have what some would call a liberal tendency; I tend to assume people don't mean ill will unless they do something directly to harm me or my loved ones; and won't make hasty judgements. (1 Corinthians 4: 5, Matthew 7:1-5 for instance)

I support the ACLU because I happen to agree with most of what they do.

While I support prayer, I do not support public-school led prayer. Public schools are for everyone; not just for christians, or jews, or anyone else. If you want school led prayer, you pay for your own schooling.

That doesn't mean limiting individuals freedom of religious expression, which the ACLU has also supported.

I support free speech as long as such speech doesn't come from hurting someone else. That goes even for people I disagree with or just can't stand, i.e. the KKK, terrorists, child molestors, etc.

I would have rejected seperate but equal if I was alive during brown v. board of edcation, and I reject it for anyone else and anywhere else.

As I said previously, the national org is 100% wrong on the 2nd amendment; but the NRA isn't 100% right on the 2nd either. The NRA does good work, but isn't perfect either.

I really dislike Chris Cox and Wayne LaPierre, and their attitudes, but they still do good work, so I support their org.

And I'm done on this topic.

[Abraham]

nitrogen ,

The topic wasn't directed at you personally.

I hope to start a bit of discussion with anyone interested.

As for references, I used yours.

They're adequate.

[seamusTX]

Do you consider any of the following "the American way of life"?

• denial of the writ of habeus corpus
• illegal detention without charges
• infringement of freedom of religion or conscience
• infringement of freedom of speech
• infringement of freedom of expression
• infringement of freedom of assembly
• infringement of freedom of association
• illegal, warrantless searches
• illegal, warrantless wiretaps
• illegal seizures
• denial of due process of law
• compelled self-incrimination
• denial of the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury
• torture under color of law
• police brutality
• prosecutorial misconduct
• judicial misconduct
• suppression of evidence
• falsification of evidence
• denial of the assistance of counsel
• cruel and unusual punishment
• denial of equal protection under law
• voter suppression
• discrimination based on sex
• discrimination based on race
• discrimination based on religion
• discrimination based on national or ethnic origin
• discrimination based on condition of disability
• discrimination based on age

I don't know of any real communists since Mao Zedong died. Do you? The Peoples Republic of China is now an oligarchy with a laissez faire economic system, which resembles fascism more that whatever communism was supposed to be, assuming there ever was such a thing.

The USSR collapsed in 1991.

- Jim

[ClarkLZeuss]

Seriously though, while I think keeping government power in check is a good thing, for example ensuring that we all have freedom to worship how/if we choose, what kills me is when the ACLU is against even such things as a daily "moment of silence." Or the cross on top of Mt. Soledad (San Diego). Or nativity scenes. No one is being converted by these kinds of things, so it doesn't even come close to the "establishment" of a religion.

[seamusTX]

I, personally, couldn't care less about insignificant symbols of religious expression on publicly owned property. However, I see the logic in opposing them. Every infringement is built up one step at a time. It is easier to oppose the first step than the hundredth, or the thousandth.

Perhaps if the NRA had been around to stick its heels in the ground and oppose the first handgun registration law or other "common sense gun control" 140 years ago, we wouldn't be in the sorry state that we find ourselves in today.

- Jim

[Purplehood]

The longest journey begins with that first step.

(Wow, I am deep today!)

[Abraham]

seamusTX ,

Your first post is very interesting, but I'm afraid I need clarification.

As for a real communist, Fidel comes to mind. He may be pushing up daisies, so his brother or some other will of course ultimately step up to the plate. I'm sure the world of those who think Cuba provides the sort of laws and personal liberty we all know they enjoy will continue...

On a side note, I've a friend who goes to Canton (now known as Guangzhou) quite regularly. He loves it there and says the freedom to come and go as one pleases was quite a surprise. Other freedoms delighted him as well, such as lighting up a cigar wherever one pleases with nary a sidelong glance from anyone. What makes his observations rather remarkable is he is a staunch anti-communist conservative. He's considering immigrating. I'dve never, in a million years thunk it...

[seamusTX]

Fidel Castro was a for-real communist until about 15 years ago. Now Cuba seems more like a typical Latin American dictatorship with better-than-average literacy.

As for China, it's great that they can smoke in public and buy just about anything that they can afford. It still isn't a hospitable place for religious evangelicals or anyone who expresses a political opinion different from official policy.

I will start to be impressed when an opposition candidate is elected there, instead of being put into a work camp or mental hospital.

- Jim

[Abraham]

As for the ACLU's alleged promotion of the first amendment, it's quite humorous when it comes to to dissenters within it's own ranks - they work strenuously to shut them down. Is that hypocrisy or irony?

If the ACLU really stands up for the first amendment why are they selective - most especially with their own members?

What are they afraid of?

[Abraham]

Jim,

Back to your first post.

I can only speculate what your point is...

[seamusTX]

My point seven messages back is that the issues in the list are the issues that the ACLU fights. They have nothing to do with being "un-American" (which is a leftover term from the red-baiting years) or communism.

I have no idea what you are referring to when you talk about the ACLU quashing dissent within their ranks. Every private organization can make its own rules and administer them as the management sees fit.

Only a government or an institution with power equivalent to a government is capable of violating rights.

- Jim