DMN 04/28 OP Ed

[jimlongley]

A Brady Bunch type, shot at VT, pipes up with his solution to college shootings, or is it a solution or just a rant?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 3393d.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And of course, my answer:

I am sorry for your suffering, but don’t you think that, once you realized you were being shot, you could have reacted by pulling a gun instead of throwing the phone away, and put an end to the rampage?

Well, even if you don’t, there are some who could and would, and it doesn’t take any less time to draw a cell phone and dial than it does to draw a gun and shoot. I’m not a particularly accomplished shooter, you won’t find me listed in the annals of record holders for my shooting accomplishments, but even as untrained and unpracticed as I am I can draw from concealment and put three shots on target in 1.86 seconds, and I know lots of people who can better me easily.

Remember the maxim “When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.” and consider how you felt just lying there waiting to be shot again, not knowing what was going to happen next. How long was it before SWAT got there? Wouldn’t you have felt somewhat better being proactive somehow instead of just lying there in fear?

Your three scholars’ 2002 article has been trumped by the recent article by three professors and in any case, CHL holders, who are by definition older than the average college student, are also, by that same definition, better behaved, and that is a matter of public record in all of the states where concealed carry is legal. Or are you saying that any college student is bound to be irresponsible and less than law abiding?

What the person who attempted to murder you did was already illegal, on so many levels, what makes you think that another law would have stopped him?

If just one legally armed student, staff, or faculty member, had been able to respond to the shooter, just one, it might very well have reduced the murderer’s body count significantly. Wasn’t the Brady bunch’s mantra, before they morphed from Handgun Control Inc, “If it saves just one life, it’s worth it.” in reference to infringement on constitutional rights, and doesn’t that apply here?

Yes, we have to solve the problem, but first the problem must be properly defined, and from my perspective, as someone who has also been shot and shot at, the problem is the gun free killing zones that amount to no risk shooting galleries rich with targets just ripe for nuts to take advantage of. Why do you think these mass murderers pick these places anyway? It's where the victims are!

[tfrazier]

...If just one legally armed student, staff, or faculty member, had been able to respond to the shooter, just one, it might very well have reduced the murderer’s body count significantly. Wasn’t the Brady bunch’s mantra, before they morphed from Handgun Control Inc, “If it saves just one life, it’s worth it.” in reference to infringement on constitutional rights, and doesn’t that apply here?...

Excellent point!

[Oldgringo]

Good job, Jim.

You've said it all. As the old sayin' goes, "you can lead a horse to water, but...".

[Wildscar]

This is the post right after yours. He even added that darn video link to the 20/20 special.

I had the opportunity to write a 630-word piece about my experience with this issue. While I refuted the argument and mentality offered by Professors Day, Leibowitz, and Pirrong, I did not offer "solutions" of my own.

I feel that would require more than another 630 words and would have to be broader in scope than just firearms (school policy, mental health reform, campus security initiatives, etc...) I will be publicizing this in the future.

I am fundamentally looking for an alternative solution than just the introduction of guns in classrooms. I will argue that this is not a simple as it seems and has the potential to cause more problems.

I would like to refer those interested to a series of scenarios that I believe help capture a fraction of my experience:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYIpiunKrHU" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[bryang]

Good job, Jim! Excellent response that pretty much said it all!

-geo

[jimlongley]

And my reply to his reply:

I would dearly love to know why the Brady bunch and their minions keep talking like we are insisting on issuing guns to every student on campus.

The issue here is allowing people who have proved; that they are capable of handling a firearm safely, that they are NOT in default on student loans, that they have no felonies on their records, ever, and no A or B misdemeanors in the last five years, that they know Texas law on concealed carry and justifiable use of force. They have spent a great deal of time and money seeking to comply with the law and take training to be able to have a CHL, they are at least 21 years old, and have passed state and federal fingerprint and background checks.

Just how much do you know about the other students and faculty at your school?

And yet you feel safer around them than around CHL holders?

The next time you walk down the street in Texas, just look around, and realize that 10% of Texans have CHLs, so 1 in 10 of the people walking near you are likely carrying guns. Knowing that makes me feel a lot safer.

And if you're not in Texas, what are you doing intruding in our state?

[tfrazier]

Good reply, but I thought is was more like 1 in every 100 Texans was a CHL holder. Is it really 1 in 10?

[bryang]

Another great job, Jim!!

-geo

[jimlongley]

Good reply, but I thought is was more like 1 in every 100 Texans was a CHL holder. Is it really 1 in 10?

OOPS!!! I dropped a decimal place when I did the math. 312,000 CHLs out of a population of about 24,000,000 equals 1.3% punching all those zeros into my touch screen calculator gets a little problematic sometimes.

Oh well, if he decides to catch me up on it, I'll plead error and point out some more of his own.

[tfrazier]

Well, if DPS would get off their cans and process things on time your stats might turn out to be accurate at the rate people have been applying since November!

[Oldgringo]

Good reply, but I thought is was more like 1 in every 100 Texans was a CHL holder. Is it really 1 in 10?

OOPS!!! I dropped a decimal place when I did the math. 312,000 CHLs out of a population of about 24,000,000 equals 1.3% punching all those zeros into my touch screen calculator gets a little problematic sometimes.

Oh well, if he decides to catch me up on it, I'll plead error and point out some more of his own.

What's a dot aka decimal point between friends. Good job never the less!

[SlowDave]

And my reply:
So, after that horrific experience, you would do it all over again with no changes, other than an attempt to really, really try to not have any bad people transport an illegal weapon onto a several hundred acre campus with 100's of access points? Unbelievable.

The bad guys WILL HAVE GUNS. Your decision is whether the good guys have that option or whether you want to give the bad guy a free-shooting zone. And the thought of getting killed before they can do a great deal of damage is definitely a deterrent to these suicidal killers. Look at the fact that they always choose "gun-free zones" (aka guaranteed victim zones) for their spree. And when they face resistance, they typically don't fight back but immediately turn the gun on themself. So armed citizens would be a great deterrent/way to address this situation.

Sticking your head in the sand cannot change the facts. I am sorry about what you had to go through and will do everything in my power to make sure that others have options to defend themselves. I am disappointed that you would not take the same approach.