Germany: shooting rampage aborted

[seamusTX]

In the German town of Bielefeld, last Thursday, an 82-year-old man went to a Jehovah's Witnesses kingdom hall with a submachine gun [sic] intending to shoot members of the congregation. The weapon jammed. Members of the congregation overpowered the man and held him until police arrived.

The man was reportedly angry because his daughter had joined the JW and stopped communicating with him.

These are the only stories in English that I could find this morning:

http://www.thelocal.de/society/20090731-20939.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/art ... AD99PHNJG3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't know if the man really had a submachine gun or whether this is a translation error. Many languages use words that translate as machine pistol for what we call a semiautomatic pistol.

Then again, there are probably still clandestine weapons from WW II in private hands. An 82-year-old would be old enough to have obtained one during the war.

- Jim

[BobCat]

Then again, there are probably still clandestine weapons from WW II in private hands. An 82-year-old would be old enough to have obtained one during the war.

- Jim

Then he should have kept it cleaned and oiled, shouldn't he?

[seamusTX]

You would think he would have gone out in the woods and fired a test shot.

- Jim

[WarHawk-AVG]

Possibly a higher power involved as well

In God have I put my trust: I will not be afraid what man can do to me. -- Psalm 56:11

But I would bet the pinhead didn't take care of the firearm

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Can anyone define the terms "submachine gun" and "machine pistol"?

Is a submachine gun a full auto weapon used by 1 soldier, and not "crew served"?

Is an Uzi a "machine pistol" because it has no long stock, but can be shot full auto?

[seamusTX]

A submachine gun is a fully automatic carbine chambered in an intermediate caliber, like the famous Tommy gun.

Machine pistol is a poorly defined term that has been used as a synonym for semiautomatic and fully automatic pistols. Remember, ACP stands for "automatic Colt pistol," but the original Colt 1911 was never full-auto.

I don't know much about Uzis. I know the original model was versatile and could be set up with a folding stock or a pistol grip, or both, in which case it could be either a carbine or pistol.

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ ... i/Uzi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[surprise_i'm_armed]

seamustx:
Thank you sir.

You use the term "intermediate caliber". Weren't all Thompsons calibered in
.45 ACP?

By the way, part way through WWII the US Army switched to the "grease gun"
since it was much cheaper than the Thompson to make. Was the grease gun
also a .45 ACP? I wouldn't think the army would introduce a new caliber due
to logistics considerations.

"An amateur talks about battle tactics.
A pro talks about logistics."
Author unknown.

[seamusTX]

I don't know if all Thompsons of the early 20th century were chambered in .45 ACP. There are some Thompsons or clones chambered in 9 mm Luger, and European armies used that round in their submachine guns.

Both of these are intermediate (power) calibers compared to rifle rounds. Real machine guns shoot rifle rounds.

I can't answer the question about grease guns.

- Jim

[WildBill]

seamustx:
Thank you sir.

You use the term "intermediate caliber". Weren't all Thompsons calibered in
.45 ACP?

.45ACP is "intermediate" compared to a .50 Cal machine gun.
"Grease guns" were also .45 ACP. http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/grease.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jimlongley]

I would have said that a submachinegun was pistol caliber.

Things get really fuzzy when you consider that the usual definition of Assault Rifle included intermedate caliber, as in between pistol caliber and rifle caliber, but consider that the first "Sturmgeweher" was originally styled a "Maschinenpistole" (MP43) which is German for - MACHINE PISTOL!