Witnessed a possible assault; seeking critique of my actions

[Rayden]

I am seeking your critique of an event that happened earlier today.

I came home of the grocery store and was driving inside my apartment complex heading to my multiplevel parking garage. I saw two groups of young males, about 3 to a group walking towards each other. They looked like they just came from the pool because they were all without shirts, in shorts and either barefooted or in slippers.

Right at that time I am beginning to turn the corner but I know something is going down because I saw one of them got rid of his slippers and was walking barefoot going forward. From the rear view mirror I saw the the mini brawl and saw one of them picked up another and body slammed him onto the hard concrete. At that time I already turned the corner and my mind was racing fast on what I should do.

I decided to park my car by my apt unit, and called 911. While describing the incident to the operator, I went back to the scene but was trying to not let them see me on the phone. I saw them still there looking like the fighting had slowed down. I couldn't tell if someone got hurt already and I stayed out of their sight and went around the corner and continue to describe the scene and proving the address to the operator.

By the time that is done and I went back around the corner, they were all gone. I can see on the ground pools of blood... LOTS of BLOOD! Someone really got busted. I stayed behind to wait for the cops and reported to them what I saw and showed them the blood.

So now here is after the fact and I am trying to analyze my action. Did I do the right thing? At the time, it was broad daylight and the first thing that came to my mind was that I didn't want them to see me trying to intervene, and didn't want them to see the car I was driving (it was my wife's car). I thought about stepping out of the car to try to stop the fight because I can see at the time somebody got slammed hard to the ground. But I was also concerned that they will remember me and know what car I drive. I don't know if they live in the complex. I was concern about my family's safety should they blame me for the intervention.

Then there is the most complicated issue. At the time the only way I can stop it is to put myself in front of them. I can tell they might be intoxicated from the pool party and would not rule out becoming their target. That means there is a good chance I might have to draw my carry weapon in order to protect myself. I don't want to have to draw my weapon. Then on the other hand, what if one of them was beaten to death while I had the opportunity to prevent that and I didn't? Now with hindsight, I don't know if I did the right thing. I am second guessing myself. However, what if I drew my weapon and one of them might also have one hidden in their pocket? (chances are slim since they look like they just came from the pool in their swim trunks and nothing else.) Or, what if a security or off duty cop was around the corner and the first thing he actually saw was me with my gun drawn pointing at a bunch of unarmed men?

Help me out ... let me know your input. Thanks!

[dicion]

CHL Holders are not police. While the law allows us to use deadly force to protect others, it is not our duty, especially in cases in which we don't know anything about what is actually happening. For all you know, all those guys were good friends, and they just wanted to start their own 'Fight Club'. Then again, they could have been rival gang members... truth is, you didn't know enough to even come close to justifying getting involved.

You did the right thing by not getting involved, and calling 911.

[Rayden]

Here are pics of the blood.

[USA1]

IMO , i cant see anything you could have done differently.

these things can happen so fast , and its easy to play monday morning quarter back .
you have to think about your own safety and the potential of repercussions to you or your family by intervening
into a situation that doesn't involve you .

seems that the best thing in this incident was to call 911 and be a witness .

[suthdj]

Feel no guilt you are safe and in one piece. All those guys were there by choice if they got hurt it is their own dumb fault they made the bad decision to be there.

[nitrogen]

Only reason I could have done something differently was if someone I knew/cared about was involved, and even then it'd depend on the situation.

You did exactly the right thing, there's no reason to get involved and possibly hurt for people you don't even know.

Besides, you can get AIDS or Hepatitis from blood like that, yet another reason to stay away.

[A-R]

I think you did well and did the right thing, regardless of whether or not you were carrying. You don't want to purposely place yourself in the middle of a hostile situation like that. You also were concerned first with your safety and the safety of your family, which trumps the safety of "other people" (it may be blunt, it may be harsh, but it IS TRUE). Your CHL does NOT make you a cop, so you have no duty to intervene and, IMHO, no authority or right to intervene (not in a moral or legal sense but in a "common" sense). Furthermore, you are not TRAINED to intervene in such situations. You did what any concerned citizen should do - you called the cops and hope they take care of it.

All that said, if this was the classic scenario of one guy beating up a defenseless woman, perhaps you intervene more - but you still must be EXTREMELY careful in these situations. And it is better for YOUR safety and your family's safety to stay out of it and let the police handle it.

Of course, if you KNEW any of the people involved and they were a close friend or family then that would change the scenario entirely and I would certainly intervene to try to help my friend/family.

[casingpoint]

I believe most CHL instructors advise you stay out of such incidents if you are not immediately endangered. As mine noted, "You really don't know what's going on." Stay out of it unless it's something totally whack, like an obvious rape or some nut job indiscriminately blazing his way through a college classroom, a mall or City Hall. As Gene Stallings would have said, "You done good, boy."

[shootthesheet]

You did it the right way.

[Oldgringo]

Are you and yours okay?

Contrary to what you may have heard somewhere, you are not automatically "your brother's" keeper.

What's your question?

[srothstein]

As an officer, I would have really appreciated what you did if I were the one handling the call. You did more than most would have by just calling 911. The fact that you, at some risk to yourself, went back and looked to verify while you were on the phone, then hung around to show it to the officer who arrived, is well beyond what anyone could have reasonably expected of you. You did good.

[Rayden]

Thank you all for the input. Now that I've seen all your replies, I now agree that I did the right thing. It is a tough situation to assess in that short of time span, and given the condition, I am ok with what I did.

Now my mind turns to the what ifs, what if it was a family member? Or a distant family member? Or all 6 against 1 hapless soul in a hate crime related attack? Or a woman being assaulted and raped?

I think for the above, depending on the situation at the time, I have in advance made up my mind that for the close family members and a woman being assaulted and raped, I will intervene. For the rest, it really depends on the situation at the time.

I think if we all have some of these scenarios go through our heads and decide to take action based on what kind of situation it is, it will make making the decision that much easier. Thanks again for all your responses.

[USA1]

I think if we all have some of these scenarios go through our heads and decide to take action based on what kind of situation it is, it will make making the decision that much easier.

by sharing your experience with us ,
it educates us about possibilities of what can take place when you least expect it .

we all learn from our experiences , and from those who share theirs .

it only reinforces the fact that bad things can happen any where , any time .
its how we react that makes a difference .

[killerfly128]

CHL Holders are not police. While the law allows us to use deadly force to protect others, it is not our duty, especially in cases in which we don't know anything about what is actually happening. For all you know, all those guys were good friends, and they just wanted to start their own 'Fight Club'. Then again, they could have been rival gang members... truth is, you didn't know enough to even come close to justifying getting involved.

You did the right thing by not getting involved, and calling 911.

Well said.

[MoJo]

You did it right.

Read this article by Evan Marshall on the dangers of intervention. http://www.stoppingpower.net/commentary ... ention.asp