Church Carry

[wgoforth]

I'm a newbie at this, so if I'm in the wrong place, please redirect me.

I am a pastor and have always been told (by LEOs or by my CHL instructor) that it was legal for CHL licensees to carry at a place of worship unless the church posted. Yesterday one of my CHL members sent me this link http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... htm#46.035 where the statute appears to read that it is illegal for a CHL licensee to carry under Sec. 46.035.(b)(6). However, in looking around this discussion group it seems that all the comments suggest that it is legal to carry at a place of worship.

Would someone please clarify this for me and if possible direct me to specific sources for documentation.

Thanks

Robert

I know the deputy who taught our CHL said in class that you cannot carry in places of worship unless the leadership gives authorization. BUT since I am the minister, I gave myself authorization and didn't worry about checking any further.
blessings
Wayne

[frazzled]

Interesting point. Who would have authority to verbally say no (and of course I'm sure this depends on locale). Priest/Preacher/persona in charge, but who else would have authority? The word of an usher or a "security officer" would make me laugh (ok it would make me tell them they are full of it as I'm the asst usher head...).

I beleive its default as noted in the actual statute. they have to 30.06/notice like anyone else.

[bdickens]

I'm sure that the Vestry would have the authority.

[rldeanjr]

Thank you all for the clarification. I am a firm believer that the real right to carry provision is in the 2nd Amendment. I also have a load of folks with CHLs in the church, and am sure there are many who carry. We just need to make sure all things are in order.

Also, we were informed by our insurance carrier (and there are only 2 insurers for church liability) that the liability insurance does not apply to someone carrying a concealed weapon, licensed or not.

However, I am not sure if they would drop us if we authorized it. And I'm not going to ask them. I think its best to leave it alone and let people do what they will and if the insurer doesn't like it, too bad. I'm accountable to the Lord for the safety of my congregation, not some insurance agency.

Robert

[retrieverman]

Also, we were informed by our insurance carrier (and there are only 2 insurers for church liability) that the liability insurance does not apply to someone carrying a concealed weapon, licensed or not.

However, I am not sure if they would drop us if we authorized it. And I'm not going to ask them. I think its best to leave it alone and let people do what they will and if the insurer doesn't like it, too bad. I'm accountable to the Lord for the safety of my congregation, not some insurance agency.

Our problem is that we have someone with an "agenda", and it appears that he is going to be dangerous. He has already raised the red flag about concealed carry at our church, and I believe he will keep pushing. The way our church operates is that the decision to carry or not will at some point have to go through the deacons and/or our leadership team. Fortunately, my Dad, Father in Law, and I are all deacons, and my Dad and Father in Law are on the leadership team.

Basically, I am going to keep doing what I have been until someone posts a sign.

[The Annoyed Man]

Perhaps he (the divider) could be invited to attend a church which more closely holds to his views?

[wgoforth]

Interesting point. Who would have authority to verbally say no (and of course I'm sure this depends on locale). Priest/Preacher/persona in charge, but who else would have authority? The word of an usher or a "security officer" would make me laugh (ok it would make me tell them they are full of it as I'm the asst usher head...).

I beleive its default as noted in the actual statute. they have to 30.06/notice like anyone else.

I suppose the other one who could tell me no would be God, but He already said it's fine in Luke 22:36, lol.

I had a telemarketer call me at the office one day, went like this:
me: "Church of Christ, may I help you?"
she "Is the owner available?"
me "not at the moment"
she "when do you expect him back?"
me "Oh, anytime now, He said He was coming back about 2,000 years ago, so I can't set an exact time for you."

of course it went over their heads, but I got a kick out of it.
Wayne

[frazzled]

Well you were being factual...

[wgoforth]

Thank you all for the clarification. I am a firm believer that the real right to carry provision is in the 2nd Amendment. I also have a load of folks with CHLs in the church, and am sure there are many who carry. We just need to make sure all things are in order.

Also, we were informed by our insurance carrier (and there are only 2 insurers for church liability) that the liability insurance does not apply to someone carrying a concealed weapon, licensed or not.

However, I am not sure if they would drop us if we authorized it. And I'm not going to ask them. I think its best to leave it alone and let people do what they will and if the insurer doesn't like it, too bad. I'm accountable to the Lord for the safety of my congregation, not some insurance agency.

Robert

Hmmm, don't think that is correct (in regards to only 2 church liability companies). I have dealt with both Church Mutual and Guide One and know there are others (Southern Mutual Church, Cornerstone, etc).
Hope that helps
Wayne

[bdickens]

I had a telemarketer call me at the office one day, went like this:
me: "Church of Christ, may I help you?"
she "Is the owner available?"
me "not at the moment"
she "when do you expect him back?"
me "Oh, anytime now, He said He was coming back about 2,000 years ago, so I can't set an exact time for you."

of course it went over their heads, but I got a kick out of it.
Wayne

[wgoforth]

Thank you all for the clarification. I am a firm believer that the real right to carry provision is in the 2nd Amendment. I also have a load of folks with CHLs in the church, and am sure there are many who carry. We just need to make sure all things are in order.

Also, we were informed by our insurance carrier (and there are only 2 insurers for church liability) that the liability insurance does not apply to someone carrying a concealed weapon, licensed or not.

However, I am not sure if they would drop us if we authorized it. And I'm not going to ask them. I think its best to leave it alone and let people do what they will and if the insurer doesn't like it, too bad. I'm accountable to the Lord for the safety of my congregation, not some insurance agency.

Robert

Hmmm, don't think that is correct (in regards to only 2 church liability companies). I have dealt with both Church Mutual and Guide One and know there are others (Southern Mutual Church, Cornerstone, etc).
Hope that helps
Wayne

I just spoke with an agent for an insurance co that specializes in church insurance. He said that they insure several churches that have men who have trained together and formed a security team. He stated that their insurance is a little higher, but not much. When I asked "but what about a member, preacher who just carries and is not a security team...is it a case of concealed is concealed and don't ask don't tell?" He paused and then said "pretty much." So, I think it would not be wise to volunteer that to insurance unless it is asked. If they do ask, ask them if they mean an official security person or not. I don't want to get this agent in any trouble which is why I do not name him nor the company. BUT, for churches who do want an offical person, contact GuideOne insurance.
Wayne

[TexCaboCat]

The law was changed as said by others before me. They just added an addendum to the law instead of re-writing it thus it is at then end of that section in the CHL law book. If the Church does not want CHL's in its place then it has to post a "legal" 30.06 sign on every door into its property, otherwise keep on carrying. You are not breaking the law.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

rldeanjr:

Welcome aboard sir.

There are many of us that carry at church. Some have other friends at church who carry
and they all know who's packing.

Then there's folks like myself that pack, but don't believe others in their church are open
to the self-defense mindset.

You should carry yourself, but whether this is a secret or not is totally up to you.

As a man of the cloth, you might feel funny packing while preaching. But if some irate
person came in to harm your congregation, or you, having your piece available could
save some people.

Usually you try to save people with the Word of God. But they may have to be saved with some JHP's.
Keep your lamps filled with oil and your weapon's magazine fully charged, with backup mags.

"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour."
Matthew 25:13

Yours in Christ, SIA

[mr surveyor]

I had a telemarketer call me at the office one day, went like this:
me: "Church of Christ, may I help you?"
she "Is the owner available?"
me "not at the moment"
she "when do you expect him back?"
me "Oh, anytime now, He said He was coming back about 2,000 years ago, so I can't set an exact time for you."

of course it went over their heads, but I got a kick out of it.
Wayne

now THAT is GREAT... I don't care WHAT denomination you are.....


CARRY ON (literally )


surv

[retrieverman]

Thank you for the replies and timely advice. Ya'll have been a big help.