Amtrak Objects to Checked Firearms on Trains

[CleverNickname]

18 USC 922(e) is what makes it illegal to carry on Amtrak (and airliners and Greyhound).

"(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm."

[dicion]

18 USC 922(e) is what makes it illegal to carry on Amtrak (and airliners and Greyhound).

"(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;

except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm."

I'll break this into 2 parts. First part above:
It doesn't say that you can't carry on greyhound. It says that you cannot 'deliver, or cause to be delivered', eg, Ship, a firearm via any 'common or contract carrier' to anyone else that a Licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector. I could also see this to mean that you cannot carry a firearm with the intent to 'deliver' it on the other end to someone other than listed above. Carrying it for your own sake does not appear to be covered.

The Second part says you MAY deliver the firearm into the custody of the captain, conductor, etc, for the trip, so you don't violate part 1 above.
Eg, if you are taking it somewhere to 'deliver' it to someone other than "licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors", you can give it to the captain/conductor/etc, and then you CAN deliver it legally. Still says nothing about actually carrying it for oneself.

This looks like an antiquated restriction that is more about 'You can't smuggle crates of guns on a train to deliver illegally' It basically says that any Shipments of weapons, that you may be accompanying, have to have the permission, or be under the custody of the captain, etc.

IMO, this does not affect personal carry of a firearm at all.

IANAL

[CleverNickname]

IMO, this does not affect personal carry of a firearm at all.

In US v. Hartzog, the defendant was convicted of violating 18 USC 922(e) for carrying a firearm on a common carrier engaged in interstate commerce, so yes, it does apply.

[Keith B]

And, in some states (Missouri is one) concealed carry on a bus is illegal even with a CHL.

[dicion]

IMO, this does not affect personal carry of a firearm at all.

In US v. Hartzog, the defendant was convicted of violating 18 USC 922(e) for carrying a firearm on a common carrier engaged in interstate commerce, so yes, it does apply.

Reading that hurts the brain. It looks like the appellate court took some serious 'liberties' with the definitions of 'deliver' in it. It also looks like it was one of those charges tacked on in the end to break the camel's back.

According to the definition of 'deliver' defined in it, you are 'delivering' your handgun to your employer every time you walk in the front door of your office

Sometimes appellate court decisions appear to be in direct contradiction with the plain wording of the law. This appears to be the case here. Oh well, good to know.

[CleverNickname]

Sheesh I provide a court case that shows exactly what I claimed is correct and you just wave your hand and dismiss it.

So I'll try a different tack. You'll agree that it's illegal to carry a firearm on a plane operated by a common or contract carrier in interstate commerce, right? (If not, I expect the TSA might also disagree with you). So what federal law makes this illegal, if not the law I posted? And if there were such another law, it would have to specifically make only carry on airliners illegal and not criminalize carry on other modes of transportation such as trains or buses. If it does not make that distinction and merely specifies "common or contract carrier" like 922(e), we're back to the situation which you say is incorrect, where interstate train/bus carry is illegal.

But there is no such other law, 922(e) was correctly applied.

Also even if the apellate court decided Hartzog incorrectly, the government has shown how they think the law applies and that they will prosecute for such violations, so unless you want to challenge them in court I don't think it would be a good idea to carry on any interstate common/contract carriers.

[dicion]

Sorry, I did not mean to seem like I was dismissing it.

I disagree with some of their statements in the appeal, however, law is law, and I agree, based on that information, it would be considered illegal.

Looks like we need a federal law specifically allowing concealed carry on common carrier.