Arrest reporting?

[OldSchool]

First of all, thank you for providing such a useful forum for such a large and complicated subject!

I have been searching this forum for answers about arrest reporting, and am starting to confuse myself with the complexity of the answers.

So far, if I understand correctly from this forum and the statutes:
* Class C and D misdemeanors (particularly traffic citations) do not have to be listed, when an actual custodial arrest is not involved, unless they fall under Section 42.01.
* A reportable "arrest" includes photo and fingerprinting, even though a traffic stop constitutes an arrest in TX.
* Deferred adjudication is a conviction for CHL purposes.
* The Section 42.01 reference in 411.172 (a) (4) holds only if the applicant is currently charged. ("is not charged....") However, I also thought I read somewhere in this forum that any 42.01 conviction will result in denial from that time on.

* Expunged convictions are no longer considered convictions for CHL purposes, but still have to be reported(?).
* A criminal background report from each jurisdiction must be sent to DPS with the application (I thought the fee was supposed to cover DPS investigators doing that job?).

What am I missing?
Thank you!

[joe817]

Hi OldSchool, welcome to the forum! Glad to have you with us!

You really need to list AND provide an explanation on any and every incident that results in being arrested, photographed and fingerprinted. That includes ALL types of traffic citations. Even if the arrest was the result of a ticket for expired inspection sticker, brake light out, etc, etc, and the unpaid ticket went to warrant.

I had several of those kinds of incidents on my record. I called down to DPS HQ with that very same questions, and I was told "what ever the reason for the arrest, we need certified disposition of it AND letter of explanation from you." I wound up filling up 2 pages of type written explanation in landscape format! I kid you not.

I hope that helps. If you have more questions, just ask away. That's what we're here for, my friend.

BTW, what part of this great State do you hail from?

[OldSchool]

Thanks, joe817 !
We're in the bustling town of League City, thanks for asking, I forgot to populate that data. (Close to The Arms Room -- good people there!)

Fortunately, I haven't found myself fingerprinted very often (mostly by the FBI for my periodic job-related checkups -- yes, they know all about me, so my NICS is quick). May I rephrase your sentence as, "You only really need to list AND provide an explanation on any and every incident that results in being arrested, photographed and fingerprinted." That is, limited to only those situations? Not the best way to phrase it, I'm afraid, but it makes things somewhat clearer.

I do have to ask about whether this guideline covers a 42.01 deferred adjudication (citation only -- no arrest -- later expunged) from eight years ago? This section seems to be a sensitive point for the CHL. Would it be cause for CHL denial?

[joe817]

O.S., I'll have to defer that opinion to others as I've no experience in that realm. Sorry.

I'm sure others that DO know will chime in shortly. BTW, there are several forum members in the League City area.

[seamusTX]

* The Section 42.01 reference in 411.172 (a) (4) holds only if the applicant is currently charged. ("is not charged....")

That is correct.

Specifically, that would mean that you have been charged with a misdemeanor (including PC 42.01 disorderly conduct), and have not had the charges dropped or been found not guitly.

However, I also thought I read somewhere in this forum that any 42.01 conviction will result in denial from that time on.

That is not true. The situation is rather complicated.

• Any class A or B misdemeanor or 42.01 conviction within the past five years makes a person ineligible.
• Two or more alcohol or drug-related convictions within the past ten years make a person ineligible.
• A domestic violence conviction makes a person ineligible for life. This is the federal definition of domestic violence (Lautenberg Amendment).

PC 42.01 is a weird grab-bag of offenses. It includes class C offenses such as swearing in public, and a couple of more serious firearm-related offenses that are class B. The Legislature was lazy (IMHO) by not specifying exactly which offenses should be disqualifications.

* A criminal background report from each jurisdiction must be sent to DPS with the application (I thought the fee was supposed to cover DPS investigators doing that job?).

You have to provide a disposition for each arrest that you report.

DPS performs the background checks to see if you forgot to report anything.

The fee has no relation to reality.

Deferred adjudication and expunction are beyond my understanding.

As usual, IANAL, etc.

- Jim

[OldSchool]

Thanks so much, these answers help me to focus on the "arrests" I might need to report (seems as if I really don't have any, but I suspect that overreporting is acceptable in this case), and I know receiving the CHL should not be a gamble for me. We'll try to obtain the reports in time for the class (given some range time between now and then).

[seamusTX]

You're welcome.

Keep in mind that it may be difficult to find records related to an incident that you are not legally obligated to report, such as a citation. Municipalities put those records in storage and eventually lose or destroy them.

- Jim

[dicion]

Thanks so much, these answers help me to focus on the "arrests" I might need to report (seems as if I really don't have any, but I suspect that overreporting is acceptable in this case),

Actually, in the experience of people on these forums, overreporting things that do not need to be reported by law has only caused people MORE Hassle.

If you report something that is not required by statute (Class B Mis. from say, 15 years ago) then they will hold your application until you provide paperwork from the court, and a written letter to explain it, even though, by law, it does NOT affect eligibility at all. Many people on these forums have had to get, at their own expense, a letter from a court many states away, simply saying that 'no records have been found' because as Jim said, these minor, old infractions are frequently lost, discarded, or destroyed.

My recommendation, from other people's experience on these forums, is that if is clearly not required to be reported by the law, then do NOT Voluntarily report it.
If you are not sure, then by all means, report it, but do not report obviously non-required information.

This is my recommendation, and I am not a lawyer.

[OldSchool]

Your experience is definitely what I need to keep me on the right path. I'll see what's in the reports I receive, then act accordingly!

Thanks!

[dicion]

Here's a perfect example of what can happen if you over-report things that do not need reporting:

http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=29376" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Short version. OP voluntarily went to a rehab program 8 years ago. Was never committed or anything. Law says 5 years or less needs to be listed, he listed it anyways. He has now had to see a psychiatrist, on his own dime, in order to get 'signed off' for his CHL to proceed. All because he reported something that he didn't have to.

[OldSchool]

F' gosh sakes! But he received excellent help and advice, and seems to be that much further ahead (in many ways). Good work, folks!

It's a shame that this happens to people who try to do the "right thing," but I also would not like to have the job of a DPS examiner trying to make sense of all these applications.

Thanks for the heads-up!
I will heed the instruction from Joe Friday: "Just the facts."

[seamusTX]

It's a shame that this happens to people who try to do the "right thing," ...

Especially since the law is not even a speed bump for criminals and lunatics.

- Jim

[OldSchool]

An update:

We did the DPS application on line, and had the packets in less than a week.

Did my own "investigation," heeding your great advice , and that took just over a week to have all the records:
No arrests at all, so it turns out I was over-anxious (haven't been as bad as I thought -- need to work on that...).

We have a slightly-used Glock 36 Mrs. OldSchool chose for us, and will both share it in the CHL class this Saturday.


Should mention that she's been in the thick of the gun purchases lately (since I have to work to support our newly re-started hobby). She had a lot of fun sending a few dozen rounds through our .357 Magnum last week (darn good patterns for a brand-new shooter with hot rounds). Her comment after our day at the range with revolver and rifles: "I can see how this can be addictive!"
One more session with the .45 should get us ready for the class. I was raised with guns on a ranch, but only recently have become acquainted with handguns -- I was really pleased with my results with the revolver.

Thanks again for your support!

[USA1]

Good luck on your class !

Let us know how it goes.

[joe817]

Good luck OldSchool! I have a feeling you'll do well.