NYPD gun bust

[ghostrider]

http://ny1.com/1-all-boroughs-news-cont ... rID=109380" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[marksiwel]

they broke up a black market gun running gang that was using gun shows in FLorida to supply weapons. Bad for our side, good for the people of New York, I guess

[nitrogen]

Pretty much every gun in NYC is an illegal gun, so yeah, I guess so.

[dicion]

Wow, they made it 5 whole sentences before they threw in the 'save the children!'

Anyways, yes, these guys were breaking the laws. Good they got caught.
Would be better if the laws were less restrictive. You wouldn't have otherwise legitimate people doing this in the black market to begin with.
Not saying these guys were legit, I don't know.

[seamusTX]

Let's look at some details here (with my opinions thrown in).

Mayor Bloomberg and the Brooklyn DA announced indictments of two men for illegal firearms sales. While an indictment is issued by a grand jury, the DA holds all the cards in terms of what evidence the jury sees. Sometimes the accused don't even know they are being investigated (which probably was the case here).

In the Brooklyn case announced on Monday, Mr. Bloomberg — joined by the Brooklyn district attorney, Charles J. Hynes, and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly — said that for three months this summer, two men sold dozens of guns to undercover officers from an apartment in East New York. Officials said the guns, most of them bought at pawn shops and gun shows in Florida, were worth more than $40,000.

The very first such sale was a federal and state felony, but the authorities strung the investigation along for three months. How many more weapons did the suspects sell to real criminals?

Pawn shops that sell firearms are FFLs and must follow the same rules as all other FFLs. If the suspects bought firearms from pawnshops, they must have had phony Florida IDs (not hard to get) or a local accomplice who could pass NICS, or else the pawnshops were crooked.

As for the alleged purchases at gun shows, none of these stories states explicitly that the purchases were from non-FFLs (Mr. Bloomberg's "gun show loophole") or straw purchases.

All of this is bad news and ammunition for those who want to end all private sales.

The mayor is scheduled to appear Tuesday with Senator Kirsten Gillibrand and Congresswoman Carolyn McCarthy to announce a new federal measure to combat gun violence.

Get ready for it.

This is an odd couple. Ms. Gillibrand is the junior senator from New York. She is from a conservative district; and as a state legislator, she was highly rated by the NRA. Ms. McCarthy's sole mission is life is to promote anti-RKBA legislation.

All that said, if the suspects did what they are alleged to have done, they are morally guilty of aiding and abetting murder, mayhem, and robbery.

They are also pretty stupid. A person has to know that it's impossible to engage in that kind of activity for long without being caught, either by a sting or one of their customers who is arrested giving them up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/nyregion/24guns.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://ny1.com/9-staten-island-news-con ... e-streets/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[seamusTX]

The other shoe drops:

Rep. Carolyn McCarthy and Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand ... will announce an effort to crack down on traffickers who illegally transport guns across state lines, McCarthy said [yesterday].

The New York lawmakers are introducing legislation next week to boost funding to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to have the agency perform annual checks of gun stores and increase mandatory penalties for those convicted of illegal gun trafficking.

"The ATF sometimes can't get around to a gun store for seven or eight years," said McCarthy (D-Mineola). "Now they would be able to do it on a yearly basis."

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nass ... -1.1619042" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[Purplehood]

Looks like they are providing more funding to the ATF to do what they are already supposed to do, and increasing penalties for violating laws already on the books. What is the other shoe that is dropping?
The only bad thing about it is that Bloomberg will make it look like a new anti-gun initiative with Bi-Partisan support. In reality it is nothing new, just improved.

[seamusTX]

What is the other shoe that is dropping?

It's just a saying.

Something happens, and you know that there is going to be a reaction.

I guess this is better than some of the alternatives. The feds spend some more borrowed money on unconstitutional infringements. Criminals who were not deterred by ten years in the slammer will not be deterred by 50 or 100.

The only potential problem is that this legislation has the potential to become a vehicle for worse measures.

- Jim

[Purplehood]

What is the other shoe that is dropping?

It's just a saying.

Something happens, and you know that there is going to be a reaction.

I guess this is better than some of the alternatives. The feds spend some more borrowed money on unconstitutional infringements. Criminals who were not deterred by ten years in the slammer will not be deterred by 50 or 100.

The only potential problem is that this legislation has the potential to become a vehicle for worse measures.

- Jim

I don't mind it as long as it does not introduce any new laws. We have enough to enforce every conceivable firearms violation as it is, and we need no more. I just wanted to make sure that I hadn't overlooked something when I asked about the other shoe...

[Liberty]

Just thinking out loud:
We will mostly agree here on this forum, that the right to defend ourselves, is a God given right.

That NYC's Gun control laws are immoral, and unconstitutional.

Folks that really need guns their can't get them legally.
Maybe the folks they are calling Gun runners and gangsters should be refered to as Heros, warriors or freedom fighters.

When people break the laws of a repressive government in the name of freedom, Is it a bad thing? should we be supportive? Should we help the freedom fighters by getting arms to them. Is this any different than when Reagan helped get some Arms to the Afghani people?

Just a thought experiment, I'm not ready to to start sending my guns to the freedom loving in NYC, but I maybe we aren't to far away from it, if things get any worse there. Is it smarter to send Arms to Afghanistan? or NYC?

[seamusTX]

With regret, I disagree.

The buyers from this kind of operation are criminals who engage in robbery, murder, and drive-by shootings that injure and kill innocent people. They turn their neighborhoods into virtual war zones.

New York City actually has a low rate of violent crime for a big city. I pay more attention to what goes on in Chicago, where I was born and my friends and relatives still live. The rate of criminal shootings there is out of control, and it is all done by teenagers, convicted felons, and illegal immigrants (none of whom can legally own a firearm anywhere).

If an otherwise law-abiding citizen defends himself with a firearm in Chicago, it is never known. Maybe the cops overlook it. There were rumors of that when I lived there.

- Jim

[texas1234]

Not to differ the subject but what are the gun laws in New York City like in summation?

[marksiwel]

Not to differ the subject but what are the gun laws in New York City like in summation?

Have fun, its a tangled web
http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/nyc.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;