Window

[Braden]

Of course, a person who would admit to seeing a 30.06 sign on one door and then intentionally going to another door that did not have such a sign probably deserves what they get. ;)

Still, I think the requirement is that all entrances must be posted in order for "effective notice" to be given.

[TxBlonde]

Yep alll entrances have be posted unless they expect us to be mindreaders. I mean if I actually honestly never walked through a door that had the sign or even walked out of one that had a sign. Do you think I honestly should be held accountable as if I really knew the sign was there and chose to ignore it? That would not be fair or right at all and trust me I know a couple of lawyers that would love for someone to do that to someone with a CHL.

[Braden]

Of course, all of this doesn't really matter unless your CONCEALED handgun becomes unconcealed...which it should not...and if it does then you have bigger things to worry about than whether or not the right sign was on the door.

Disclaimer: I am in no way suggesting that it is okay to break the law.

[TxBlonde]

Gotcha. I was referring to if you entered on the north end of any given building - no 30.06 signage - but there was signage on the south end. You don't see it, but are picked up and charged with UCW b/c the south side is posted.


Would there be a defense in the fact that you never passed the sign?

Yes I actually do, But you would have to prove you walked in the north side. Like you vehicle being parked on the northside.

[TxBlonde]

Neither am I. I just know I am not walking in a mall at christmas at night without feeling safe. I know that much to be true.

[TxBlonde]

Disclaimer: I am in no way suggesting that it is okay to break the law.

*DITTO*

I ain't either I just know that a little white girl alone walking to a truck in a mall parking lot says please rob me. I can be parinoid, but I want to feel safe. I think that is why we all got our CHL's.

[Wilson]

If you were to admit.

ADMIT! Admit! . . . who on this list is stupid enough to admit to that. . . .

Now if the Mall/store had an entry posted last week and I enter a different door today that is not posted, the logical assumption is that the owner smartened up and removed all signs from all entries. I certainly am not required to check every entry.

Notwithstanding the above, a mall/store might elect to have a portion of their property posted but choose not to post all of it. Maybe that part of the store that is more susceptible to attacks on shopper is not to be posted. Several Mall have elected not to post large retailers doors and also not to post entries from those large retailers into the mall. I assume that is because the mall owner think a better class of folks enter through the large retail stores.

The above would be my comments to my attorney as I would not answer any questions ask by a security guard or police because they would not know I was armed unless something unfortunate happened where I would need an attorney anyway.

[txinvestigator]

IF you enter through the area that is not marked then you can not be in violation of the 30.06 sign.

That is not necessarily true. It might be true, but not always.

How would you be held in violation of 30.06 if you had no warning?

Text
§30.06. Trespass by holder of license to carry concealed handgun.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H,
Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without
effective consent; and

(2) received notice that:

(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a
concealed handgun was forbidden; or

(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if
the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act
for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written
communication.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).

(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical
to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (trespass by
holder of license to carry a concealed handgun), a person licensed under
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (concealed handgun law), may
not enter this property with a concealed handgun"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both
English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at
least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
(d) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.


Someone show me where the law requires notice to be posted at every entrance.

Lets take a mall. You walk up to door number one and see the 30.06 sign, look at, and walk away. You then go to the Dillards entrance "cause that one ain't posted" and enter. Security saw you on camera do all of that, and notified the Police at the mall. The police approach you and, like a good CHLer, you show your ID and CHL. The police then arrest you for 30.06 and place the video tape into evidence.

I admit this is a stretch, but lets be clear under the law, not every entrance has to be posted. It does not matter if you did not see the sign or went in a non-posted entrance. If the state proves the sign was "displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public" you risk a conviction.

I know it seems unfair, and I am not cutting hairs just to do it. It is dangerous to make blanket statements about what is and is not legal about various circumstances. It is just not true that "all entrances have to be posted".

I do agree, in theory, that if there was no sign at YOUR entrance then effective notice was not given 30.06. But the law does not state that.

[Wilson]

Someone show me where the law requires notice to be posted at every entrance.

Ok, here you go . . . .
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

And if I’m arrested I’m going to sue the Security Guard, Police Department and Mall Owner for false arrest because Dillard’s gladly permitted me to enter their space, rented from the mall owner, armed. Unless the Dillard’s lease had a restriction I can’t be stopped. If it did and Dillard’s didn’t post the sign, I’m suing Dillard’s also.

I always wanted to be rich

[TxBlonde]

I know a good one, that is if you need one. Well considering that is who teaches college classes. I hope I know a few. And if you get in trouble in about 6 I might beable to defend you.

See now that I know Dillard's Let's Me I will only enter there. So explain to me how that is notice.

Well I guess you guys think the law should be spelled out well enough for my first grader to understand it.

I am NOT going to walking around the outside of a mall to look at all the doors to make sure that not one of them has a sign. I am going to walk through the doors of the store for BETTER class of people and go about my marry way.

And I have to agree with wilson.

I am not saying a word to anyone but my lawyer. I know my rights. And I have the right to remain silent and the right to an attorney and if I get arrest that is just what I doing.

KEEPING MY BIG MY SHUT.

[racer32]

Here's a "for instance" for you: I entered the Grapevine Mills Mall at the entrance near Rainforest Cafe. On my way in, I did not see a 30.06 sign ( and I WAS looking for one). On my way OUT, right there on the wall was a 30.06 sign...probably 8 ft. tall. It was in plain sight on the way out, but was virtually invisible to a person entering the mall because of the angle of the doors, sidewalk, and wall. A person entering that door would have to have eyes in the back of their head to see the 30.06 sign. Is that sign posted in a conspicuous manner?

BTW: I'm not telling whether I was carrying that day or not.

[KBCraig]

I went to a large local credit union to inquire about an RV loan. As is my habit when entered some place new, I checked carefully for signs... there were none.

Then while I was sitting there waiting on some paperwork, I happened to glance at the lobby, and was shocked to see a large 30.06 notice on the very same door I'd come through!

Then someone approached the door. The door, and the 30.06 notice, slid open. And when it slid open, it slid right behind a big display panel.

I didn't see the sign, because the sign was hidden when I came in.

Not to worry. I haven't been back. I took my business elsewhere.

Kevin

[txinvestigator]

Someone show me where the law requires notice to be posted at every entrance.

Ok, here you go . . . .
(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.

Do those words really look the same to you, and do you believe the sentences have the same meaning? They don't. I already said I agree with the general thesis; however, the law does not say it has to be posted at every entrance.

[Braden]

I think the key word is "conspicuous". If I got busted for going through an unposted door I think it would be pretty easy to prove in court that the sign wasn't conspicuous. All you need is a good dictionary...

con·spic·u·ous

1. Easy to notice; obvious.
2. Attracting attention, as by being unusual or remarkable; noticeable.

A lot of this all goes back to that whole "reasonable person" thing. In other words, what would a reasonable person do? The reasonable person, in my opinion, isn't going to go around checking every entrance to a mall to see if there are any signs posted. The reasonable person is going to walk up to the entrance closest to their car, quickly check for proper signage and then either turn around or go inside.

[TxBlonde]

Well I went to Town east mall today and I entered through Dillards, Looked like a crazy person looking for a sign....NO sign there...We left through the main enterance and still no sign. Guess I know which mall is getting Business. Bigger does not always mean better.

Braden wrote:

I think the key word is "conspicuous". If I got busted for going through an unposted door I think it would be pretty easy to prove in court that the sign wasn't conspicuous. All you need is a good dictionary...

con·spic·u·ous

1. Easy to notice; obvious.
2. Attracting attention, as by being unusual or remarkable; noticeable.

I have to agree if I have to spin around to see the sign behind me that is not noticable from walking forward.