Vehicle computers as evidence

[seamusTX]

Modern motor vehicles have onboard computers that control functions of the drivetrain and body (air bags, seat belts, etc.). This has been the case for over 20 years. I worked in that field in the 1980s.

These computers have become increasingly complex. Some of them now record data like the well-known "black boxes" in airplanes (they aren't black -- they're usually orange).

Police officers can now read out this information after a crash. In some cases, they can tell the speed of the vehicle before the collision and whether the driver was stepping on the accelerator or brake.

Apparently no warrant is required to download this data after a crash, and use of it as evidence has held up in court.

http://www.galvnews.com/story.lasso?ewc ... 79ba029918" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The last part was news to me.

- Jim

[WildBill]

Modern motor vehicles have onboard computers that control functions of the drivetrain and body (air bags, seat belts, etc.). This has been the case for over 20 years. I worked in that field in the 1980s.

These computers have become increasingly complex. Some of them now record data like the well-known "black boxes" in airplanes (they aren't black -- they're usually orange).

Police officers can now read out this information after a crash. In some cases, they can tell the speed of the vehicle before the collision and whether the driver was stepping on the accelerator or brake.

Apparently no warrant is required to download this data after a crash, and use of it as evidence has held up in court.

The last part was news to me. - Jim

So you can't be compelled to testify against yourself, but your car can.
I would like to read some case law on this to find the reasoning of the judges. I guess it may be no different than any other physical evidence obtained from the examination of a crashed car.

[seamusTX]

I guess it may be no different than any other physical evidence obtained from the examination of a crashed car.

That's what I would think. The police routinely search crashed cars for evidence of alcohol or drug use and check their mechanical condition.

I have no idea how to research the case law. Vehicle crashes rarely result in criminal offenses beyond a misdemeanor, so these cases are unlikely to be appealed.

- Jim

[Keith B]

I personally know of a pending case where they did this. Information was downloaded from the on-board computer after the crash and is being used as grounds for charging the guy and used as evidence in the case. The individual has been charged with 5 counts of manslaughter due to the fact he was traveling almost 100 mph in a 40 mph zone when he hit and killed the family of 5 (2 adults and 3 children.) The guy supposedly was fighting with his ex on the cell phone about being late to pick up his kids for visitation, got mad and floored it.

These people were good friends of ours from church and the loss of the family has been devastating to their families and friends.

[WildBill]

These people were good friends of ours from church and the loss of the family has been devastating to their families and friends.

Very sad indeed. I have also wondered about the police downloading GPS devices to investigate crimes.

[A-R]

And GM's "OnStar" is just a "Big Brother" (1984) to monitor every movement of your car. I will personally not buy a GM product unless all OnStar devices are removed from vehicle at dealer's expense before delivery.

[jordanmills]

I've seriously considered building my own. I definitely wouldn't trust one that uses well known access channels - I don't need my own truck being used against me. But I think that having the option to recover and enter data from the onboard audio or video recorder, or engine telemetry, and later submit it as evidence is pretty useful

[LarryH]

Have you seen that OnStar commercial in which a police car is following a suspected stolen SUV and talking to the OnStar "control center"?

The OnStar guys say "I'm going to flash the emergency lights."

The LEOs say something like "Confirmed. That's the vehicle."

Then OnStar shuts off the ignition to the SUV, and it coasts to a stop on the shoulder.

Any useful technology can be mis-used, if the wrong people are in control. Any system that can be designed can be hacked, if you're willing to spend enough time and $$$ to do so.

"Be afraid, be terribly afraid."

[Keith B]

Have you seen that OnStar commercial in which a police car is following a suspected stolen SUV and talking to the OnStar "control center"?

The OnStar guys say "I'm going to flash the emergency lights."

The LEOs say something like "Confirmed. That's the vehicle."

Then OnStar shuts off the ignition to the SUV, and it coasts to a stop on the shoulder.

Any useful technology can be mis-used, if the wrong people are in control. Any system that can be designed can be hacked, if you're willing to spend enough time and $$$ to do so.

"Be afraid, be terribly afraid."

I think I am gonna figure out how to hack the system and use it to make a bunch of money. I will open a garage ad as soon as a Cadillac or high-dollar SUV starts to go by I will cause the lights to flash and the engine stall so they have to roll dead into my place to 'get repaired'.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Gee, that equipment is in LaMarque. How perfect.

I wonder whether they hooked it up to that $1.5 Million
Bugatti Veyron that the guy dumped in the bay recently!!

Does this unit also have the ability to see phantom pelicans
that cause rich owners to drive off the road??

SIA

[seamusTX]

I wonder whether they hooked it up to that $1.5 Million Bugatti Veyron that the guy dumped in the bay recently!!

Electronic devices do not function after being dipped in salt water, however briefly.

It was pretty clear that that driver ditched the car because he had his head where the sun doesn't shine.

- Jim

[hheremtp]

I wonder whether they hooked it up to that $1.5 Million Bugatti Veyron that the guy dumped in the bay recently!!

Electronic devices do not function after being dipped in salt water, however briefly.

It was pretty clear that that driver ditched the car because he had his head where the sun doesn't shine.

- Jim

Isn't that the majority of Houston drivers

[surprise_i'm_armed]

seamustx wrote: It was pretty clear that that driver ditched the car because he had his head where the sun doesn't shine.

That sounds like grounds to issue handicapped license plates.

SIA

[Bart]

Maybe he was smart enough to get rid of the evidence.

[Abraham]

...on the other hand the same computer could possibly exonerate.