AR10 vs AR15

[LedJedi]

So a buddy of mine is building out his AR15 and I have been thinking of doing the same for years now. It's been a matter of disposable income more than indecision but now that things are starting to settle down I'm actually starting a "rifle fund". Keep in mind that I know about as much about rifles as a monkey does about building a rocket ship, but i'm eager to learn. I've been studying the AR15 websites for a while but something just isn't sitting right with me. I can't quite pinpoint it, but I suspect it just seems to be a little on the weak side for the image I have in my head.

Ultimately this would be my long range zombie/alien apocalypse scenario sniper rifle. I want a real AT&T setup where I can really reach out and touch someone (undead) if need be.

What do you guys think?

I know it's probably going to be more expensive to build an AR10 one part at a time compared to an AR15, but i'm not really even sure if there are enough folks into the AR10 scene to really make that practical. I just want the longer potential range and stability of the heavier 308 round.

[stroo]

I am about at mechanically inclined as a doorknob and have built 3 AR 15s all of which work well. From what I have read, AR 10 kits are available and go together much like an AR 15 kit. They are more expensive though.

[Sidro]

Go to dpmsinc.com and check out the forum there, you might get some answers to your questions. The larger calibers run roughly about $200 higher. Have 3 .223s, 2 .308s and one 300 short action ultramag but all were straight buys and not builds. May pick up a 7mm-08 today. A good trigger is necessary for a tack driver as factory ones are milspec and a little rough. You can buy or build a lower and use multiple uppers on it but AR15 and AR10 are two different size lowers and will not interchange. My reccomendation is a flat top upper so as to mount optics, but if you prefer the carry handle look you can also mount a removable one so as to use iron sights.

[TLE2]

The carry handle is the cheapest thing you'll buy for your AR...

[LedJedi]

wow, that dpmsinc.com website is off the chain. That was exactly what I was looking for. The zombie hordes, both near and far won't stand a chance :)

I've decided this is what I'm going to get. It may take me a year or so to save up the funds but this is exactly what I'm looking for.

http://dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=1999" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Panther™ LRT-SASS

The DPMS LR-308 Semi Auto Sniper System (SASS) was born of military necessity. US Military Snipers and marksmen overseas found themselves rapidly switching from scenarios involving precision long range shooting one moment, to close, violent encounters where they were at a disadvantage due to the low ammunition capacity and slow rate of fire of their bolt action rifles. The Government sought a solution to this problem…The DPMS SASS is the answer.

With an 18” fluted bull barrel, free floating 4 rail hand-guards, and JP adjustable Trigger, it is capable of sub-MOA accuracy at long range, fulfilling its role as a precision rifle. The 19 + 1 ammunition capacity and semi auto fire control group ensure the shooter is never outgunned, and allows for faster follow up shots. The Magpul PRS stock (new for 2008, previous models feature a VLTOR modstock), Panther Flash hider, DPMS Mangonel back up iron sights, and A3 receiver, complete the package.

Description

Barrel:

18" Length w/ Panther flash hider
416 Stainless Steel
6 grooves, right-hand 1x10 twist,
button rifled
Chamber:

7.62 NATO
Method of Operation:

Gas operated rotating bolt
Bolt & Carrier:

8620 steel bolt carrier, heat treated
and plated per Mil Spec
Phosphated steel bolt, heat treated
and plated per Mil Spec
Sights:

Primary: - Optics (NOT INCLUDED)
Backup - Mangonel Front & Rear
flip-up sight (INCLUDED)
Weight:

Empty - 11.50 lbs.
Length:

Extended: 38 3/4"
Collapsed: 35 1/2"
Length of pull:

10.5"(1st position)
13.75" (5th position)
Bipod:

Harris 9-13" Swivel Series Bipod
Bipod adapter made by Fobus
Upper Receiver:

A3 style flattop
Thick walled, extruded from 6066-T6 aluminum
Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
Dust cover
Shell deflector and forward assist machined as one unit
Right hand ejection
Lower Receiver:

Hard coat anodized per Mil Spec and Teflon coated black
integral trigger guard
Aluminum magazine release button
Ambi-Selector installed
Milled from a solid billet of 6061-T6 aluminum
Trigger:

JP adjustable, 4.5-5 lbs pull adjustable for over-travel and take-up
Stock:

2008 Models Feature: Magpul PRS Stock (as pictured above)
2007 Models Feature: VLTOR Modstock
Handguards:

Standard length 4-rail free floating, vented. Includes 9 Wide rail covers
Pistol Grip:

Panther Tactical Grip

[The Annoyed Man]

Weight:

Empty - 11.50 lbs.

Wow.

I thought my M1A Loaded was heavy, but it weighs 2 pounds less empty, with a 22" barrel. Same catridge, same magazine capacity, same range, very nearly the same accuracy (right at 1 MOA), iron sights calibrated to 1,000 yards, can accept a scope, Karsten adjustable cheek rest, and gas piston operated — the latest rage since 1939.

Oh, and $400 cheaper. (of course, you get that cool rail system....)

Sorry... the devil made me do it. Actually, I've wanted a SASS for a while now, but the M1A ate up my rifle budget for the foreseeable future. That's a nice rifle. You'll enjoy it, I'm sure. I'll tell you what, I've got a PRS buttstock on my coyote rifle, and I love that thing. It is heavy, but the adjustability turns a "one-size-fits-all" approach to custom rifle building into a "one-size-fits-me" proposition.

[Sidro]

LedJedi just for info the Remington r-15(.223) is made by Bushmaster and the r-25(.243, 7mm-08 and . 308) are made by DPMS. The 7mm-08 has a 20" fluted bbl and is free floated, I just picked one up today and will sight it in tomorrow. I have 6 DPMS rifles and really like them all. I have the JP trigger in my .300 short action ultramag and really like it. Good luck with your buy or build.

[Ashlar]

Build it yourself.. much more fun, and you can point at it and say "Hey, this is my custom-built, one off rifle." ;)

(It may be more expensive in the long run, but you don't notice the overall cost so much- nor does the wife- when the guy in brown brings one or two parts in a paycheck.)

[The Annoyed Man]

LedJedi just for info the Remington r-15(.223) is made by Bushmaster and the r-25(.243, 7mm-08 and . 308) are made by DPMS.

I thought that Bushmasters were made by DPMS too.

[The Annoyed Man]

I've built an AR15 and it was easy. My impression, other than cost issues, is that building an AR10 would not be any more difficult. I very nearly bought a DPMS AR10 on the day I bought my M1A. I think that someday I may still get one.

The .223 and the .308 each bring something to the table, and each has advantages over the other. I enjoy shooting my ARs. The recoil is almost nonexistent. The ammo is cheap (for rifle ammo). The AR15 platform is fairly reliable and accurate. In my opinion, there is no finer CQB weapon (other than a shotgun) than an AR15 carbine, and AR15s also make an excellent plinking rifle, or a hunting platform for varmints, hogs (at shorter ranges), and smaller deer inside of 150 yards.

But if you really want to reach out and touch something at long range in the AR platform, or you need that extra thump for large hogs at some distance, you need to go with the .308. Plus, there is something supremely satisfying about shooting the round. For example... There's a 10"x10" steel plate hanging on chains at the 200 yard line at the Haltom City Gun Club range. When you hit it with a .223 - even a heavy 77 grain .223 - you hear a "ping!" and the plate sways a little bit. When you hit it with a 168 grain .308 moving nearly as fast, it goes "CLANG!!!" and nearly rips the plate off its chains. Ergo, if you hit a zombie in the head at 200 yards with a .223, it will go "ping!" and cause the zombie to sway and stumble. If you hit a zombie in the head at 200 yards with a .308, it will tear the zombie's head clean off, and kill 4 or 5 more zombies behind it. If your target is hiding behind a cinder block wall, a .308 will still kill it. If it is behind a steel door, a .308 can still kill it. If your target is 800 yards out, a .308 will still kill it.

I am a huge fan of the round, and we own 5 rifles in my family chambered in it — 2 M1As, 2 heavy barreled bolt rifles, and a lightweight sporter bolt rifle. Yes, there are more powerful cartridges. There are faster cartridges, and there are cartridges that offer you a slightly greater range of bullet choices, but I don't think there is another .30 caliber round out there that is as forgiving and as inherently accurate as the .308.

All of that said, I would advise to start with the AR15. Build it, learn it, love it. Later on, get an AR (or FN FAL or M1A) in .308 and go "hog-wild."

[Sidro]

TAM the Cerebrus? group owns Bushmaster, DPMS, Remington, Marlin and Dakota firearm companies. They are all seperate companies and Remington is the only one that has firearms built by other groups. I think they own two more but can't remember them at this time. Got to rough sight the 7mm-08 this morning and think its gonna be a keeper. Like you I also love the .308 and have three but for heavy hitting its gonna be the .300SAUM.

[The Annoyed Man]

TAM the Cerebrus? group owns Bushmaster, DPMS, Remington, Marlin and Dakota firearm companies. They are all seperate companies and Remington is the only one that has firearms built by other groups. I think they own two more but can't remember them at this time. Got to rough sight the 7mm-08 this morning and think its gonna be a keeper. Like you I also love the .308 and have three but for heavy hitting its gonna be the .300SAUM.

Yeah, that .300 RSAUM in an AR platform sounds like a heck of a rifle... ...or in a bolt rifle, for that matter. I've never actually fired that cartridge, so I only know what people say about the ballistics, but a short action cartridge with those kinds of numbers pushing a .308 caliber bullet is a pretty impressive thing. I've read that the ballistics are similar to the .300 WSM, and I've shot a lightweight bolt rifle in that chambering and was... ..."startled" is good word... by the recoil. It's not that the recoil was overbearing. I expected brisk. But the eye relief on the guy's scope wasn't that generous, and the recoil knocked my glasses off and gave me an idiot mark over my left eye.

[Chuck TX]

I have my share of both. Personally I'd opt for the AR15 first if it's for an end of the world zombie scenario. It's MUCH lighter, still accurate out to good distances, and parts are readily available. With the AR10/308's that's not the case. You generally can't build an AR10/308 out of parts from companies X, Y, and Z because unlike the AR15 many tend to be at least somewhat proprietary.

I hunt with both, hardly use bolt actions anymore, and either one will git-R-done if you do your part.

[cougartex]

Build it yourself.. much more fun, and you can point at it and say "Hey, this is my custom-built, one off rifle." ;)

(It may be more expensive in the long run, but you don't notice the overall cost so much- nor does the wife- when the guy in brown brings one or two parts in a paycheck.)