Interesting CHL Discussion With My Boss

[pdubyoo]

I had a somewhat interesting, but encouraging discussion with my boss yesterday. We were travelling together from Houston to Beaumont, Orange and Port Arthur to visit some customers. Shortly after he climbed in my car early yesterday morning, which is a company-provided vehicle, he asked me if I had my gun with me for this trip. He knows that I have a CHL, as he is also a gun enthusiast, and has expressed intentions of getting his license soon.

My immediate response was "no"...we are going to be on site at three different refineries, and weapons are strictly prohibited, and they do search your vehicles before entering. I've been with this company for 2-1/2 years, and he's been with it just slightly less. He asked if I have ever been asked to sign anything from "corporate" that prohibits carrying a weapon in the vehicle or while on company business. I answered "no". He said that he hadn't either.

Then he said that he doesn't like travelling to Beaumont and Port Arthur because he doesn't feel safe when he's there. That's why he asked about me carrying.

He said that as far as he's concerned, don't ask-don't tell works for him. He said that he wants to go with me to the range sometime soon to see how he likes a .40 cal vs a 9mm. It is his intentions to start carrying when he's on the road. I thought that was pretty cool.

[MoJo]

Don't blame your boss for not wanting to come to the Golden Triangle unarmed I live here and won't go unarmed. All the plants in this area are in really bad areas not to mention Port Arthur is all a bad area. I don't know what the protocol is to get into the plants is any longer but, Homeland Insecurity oops Security has something to do with it now and CHL or not if you are caught inside one with a prohibited item (not just weapons) you are going to have some 'splainin' to do downtown.

[Marty Graw]

Good for you boss but remember his permission doesn't override the refinery rules.

[PUCKER]

Question for y'all about these refineries in Texas, they are in Texas (meaning NOT Federal property), right? I guess I'm lost, unless you've been given notice under 30.06 I don't see where it's covered that you can't have a CHL-carried handgun on you. Educate me please, not flaming ya, I'm ignorant (did I type that? LOL).

[TexasGal]

Too bad these places don't have a secure place/person to hold your gun while you are in the prohibited areas so you could at least carry the rest of the time you are in town.

[pdubyoo]

Oh, don't get me wrong...I'm thrilled my boss is supportive of carrying. And you're right, those areas are not in the best neighborhoods, but the refineries and petro-chem plants are very strict about weapons. Most are posted 30.06. My boss wasn't aware of their strict policies until I told him. They even get real bent out of shape about cell phones...especially w/ cameras. I even have to leave my itty-bitty Swiss Army pocket knife in the car.

He was disappointed that I didn't have my gun, but understood why. I do carry when I'm not heading to one of those restricted plants. And sometime soon, he will be too.

Many of the plants are moving toward the requirement of a TSA issued credential called a TWIC card. I got mine last year, and most of those places ask for that as a preferred ID before a driver's license.

[pdubyoo]

Question for y'all about these refineries in Texas, they are in Texas (meaning NOT Federal property), right? I guess I'm lost, unless you've been given notice under 30.06 I don't see where it's covered that you can't have a CHL-carried handgun on you. Educate me please, not flaming ya, I'm ignorant (did I type that? LOL).

Here's where it talks about critical tresspass at a "critical infrastructure facility"...

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS.
(a) A person commits an offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or he enters or remains in a building of another without effective consent and he:
(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or
(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.
(b) For purposes of this section:
(1) "Entry" means the intrusion of the entire body.
(2) "Notice" means:
(A) oral or written communication by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
(B) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders or to contain livestock;
(C) a sign or signs posted on the property or at the entrance to the building, reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders, indicating that entry is forbidden;
(D) the placement of identifying purple paint marks on trees or posts on the property, provided that the marks are:
(i) vertical lines of not less than eight inches in length and not less than one inch in width;
(ii) placed so that the bottom of the mark is not less than three feet from the ground or more than five feet
from the ground; and
(iii) placed at locations that are readily visible to any person approaching the property and no more than:
(a) 100 feet apart on forest land; or
(b) 1,000 feet apart on land other than forest land; or
(E) the visible presence on the property of a crop grown for human consumption that is under cultivation, in the process of being harvested, or marketable if harvested at the time of entry.
(3) "Shelter center" has the meaning assigned by Section 51.002, Human Resources Code.
(4) "Forest land" means land on which the trees are potentially valuable for timber products.
(5) "Agricultural land" has the meaning assigned by Section 75.001, Civil Practice and Remedies Code.
(6) "Superfund site" means a facility that:
(A) is on the National Priorities List established under Section 105 of the federal Comprehensive Environmental Response, Compensation, and Liability Act of 1980 (42 U.S.C. Section 9605); or
(B) is listed on the state registry established under Section 361.181, Health and Safety Code.
(7) "Critical infrastructure facility" means one of the following, if completely enclosed by a fence or other physical barrier that is obviously designed to exclude intruders:
(A) a chemical manufacturing facility;
(B) a refinery;
(C) an electrical power generating facility, substation, switching station, electrical control center, or electrical transmission or distribution facility;
(D) a water intake structure, water treatment facility, wastewater treatment plant, or pump station;
(E) a natural gas transmission compressor station;
(F) a liquid natural gas terminal or storage facility;
(G) a telecommunications central switching office;
(H) a port, railroad switching yard, trucking terminal, or other freight transportation facility;
(I) a gas processing plant, including a plant used in the processing, treatment, or fractionation of natural gas; or
(J) a transmission facility used by a federally licensed radio or television station.

[PUCKER]

pdubyoo - thank you but I don't see how this applies to a CHL that is allowed/welcomed/invited to be there though?

Now, if it has a valid 30.06 sign (I see where the OP mentioned some that had 30.06 signage) then it's a moot point.

[cougartex]

Don't blame your boss for not wanting to come to the Golden Triangle unarmed I live here and won't go unarmed. All the plants in this area are in really bad areas not to mention Port Arthur is all a bad area. I don't know what the protocol is to get into the plants is any longer but, Homeland Insecurity oops Security has something to do with it now and CHL or not if you are caught inside one with a prohibited item (not just weapons) you are going to have some 'splainin' to do downtown.

Not all of Port Arthur is bad, just 90%.

[MoJo]

Don't blame your boss for not wanting to come to the Golden Triangle unarmed I live here and won't go unarmed. All the plants in this area are in really bad areas not to mention Port Arthur is all a bad area. I don't know what the protocol is to get into the plants is any longer but, Homeland Insecurity oops Security has something to do with it now and CHL or not if you are caught inside one with a prohibited item (not just weapons) you are going to have some 'splainin' to do downtown.

Not all of Port Arthur is bad, just 90%.

But to get to that 10% you have to go through part of the 90%

[texas1234]

Its nice when you have something in common with your boss. My favorite kind of boss is the boss the looks at work as a means to support his or her outside interests. The worst kind of boss is the boss that looks at their job as their life and reason for existing. Thats when working becomes miserable.

[Roger Howard]

Question for y'all about these refineries in Texas, they are in Texas (meaning NOT Federal property), right? I guess I'm lost, unless you've been given notice under 30.06 I don't see where it's covered that you can't have a CHL-carried handgun on you. Educate me please, not flaming ya, I'm ignorant (did I type that? LOL).

IMO plants are private property owned by industry. I have only seen one plant that was properly posted 30.06. I wish I could remember which one it is.
With that being said, If you were carrying and the firearm was found you probably would end up downtown. The management of chemical plants have no sense of humor and take weapons on the premises seriously.

At a minimum you would be banned from returning to the plant.. It could also turn into a costly criminal case depending on the officers in the field and the DA.

Your should be a truck driver. the most security has ever done with me is look inside the cab..

[PUCKER]

Roger, you mentioned it could turn into a costly criminal case, what would the charges be (if it's not posted 30.06 and you weren't notified, meaning that you were legal to carry)? Just curious, not flaming you, but I'd like to know your thoughts on it. If you're legal, you're legal, right? Or am I dead-wrong here? If you're "legal" and it ends up that you're not, then what's the point of having a CHL? Know what I mean?

Question for y'all about these refineries in Texas, they are in Texas (meaning NOT Federal property), right? I guess I'm lost, unless you've been given notice under 30.06 I don't see where it's covered that you can't have a CHL-carried handgun on you. Educate me please, not flaming ya, I'm ignorant (did I type that? LOL).

IMO plants are private property owned by industry. I have only seen one plant that was properly posted 30.06. I wish I could remember which one it is.
With that being said, If you were carrying and the firearm was found you probably would end up downtown. The management of chemical plants have no sense of humor and take weapons on the premises seriously.

At a minimum you would be banned from returning to the plant.. It could also turn into a costly criminal case depending on the officers in the field and the DA.

Your should be a truck driver. the most security has ever done with me is look inside the cab..

[ES4Me]

Port Arthur, Beaumont, Orange, etc. facilities fall under 33 CFR 105 - maritime security regs for waterside facilities. September 11 changed the way a lot of us have to do business. Carrying a firearm into a federally regulated facility will result in a lot of attention you may not want. Kind of like trying to carry a gun in your pocket through airport security.

Depending upon the nature of materials manufactured and/or handled, there are other federal regulations which dictate security measures with which visitors and employees must comply. Most have to do with the fact that these are very dangerous places to work and MANY lives are dependent upon the safety exhibited by those present. Would you like to take the chance on some moron accidentally discharging a firearm into the side of a cyanide tank?

With that said, most facilities have parking lots outside the security gates for you to park your vehicle. You can have your firearm locked up inside your vehicle in the NON SECURE areas and not be in voilation of federal law. This is where the posting of 30.06 would come into play. Obviously if the parking lot was posted, it would be a no no.

[Roger Howard]

Port Arthur, Beaumont, Orange, etc. facilities fall under 33 CFR 105 - maritime security regs for waterside facilities. September 11 changed the way a lot of us have to do business. Carrying a firearm into a federally regulated facility will result in a lot of attention you may not want. Kind of like trying to carry a gun in your pocket through airport security.

Depending upon the nature of materials manufactured and/or handled, there are other federal regulations which dictate security measures with which visitors and employees must comply. Most have to do with the fact that these are very dangerous places to work and MANY lives are dependent upon the safety exhibited by those present. Would you like to take the chance on some moron accidentally discharging a firearm into the side of a cyanide tank?

With that said, most facilities have parking lots outside the security gates for you to park your vehicle. You can have your firearm locked up inside your vehicle in the NON SECURE areas and not be in voilation of federal law. This is where the posting of 30.06 would come into play. Obviously if the parking lot was posted, it would be a no no.

As do a lot of facilities along the coast. If they require a TWIC card then it is a federally regulated Facility.