Consent to Search

[seamusTX]

If one (me for instance) has nothing illegal in my vehicle - how often in such a scenario where "I give my consent to a search" will there be a horrendous outcome, that is say, they ruin upholstery/create damage, etc.

The first question is whether you have had complete control of your vehicle at all times.

People have run into trouble because one of their kids had a friend in the vehicle who smoked a joint and left some traces. The vehicle owner gets into trouble without having done anything wrong.

Another possibility is that you run into a cop who thinks that hollowpoint bullets or magazines that hold more than ten rounds are illegal. There are such cops.

- Jim

[grumble]

Another possibility is that you run into a cop who thinks that hollowpoint bullets or magazines that hold more than ten rounds are illegal. There are such cops.

- Jim

BOTH of these are true in my former stated of residence (NJ). Well, kind of - hollowpoints could be purchased and shot at the range, but not used for self defense, even in one's own home.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

Of course, I don't look, behave or in any way present myself as a street type criminal. I'm a middle aged, (O.K. a little more than middle-aged) well spoken, normally dressed bald, white guy. So my profile, if you will, is rather non-threatening...so I don't feel threatened by such a search.

Yes, there are many of us that fit such a description.

But there are other fine Americans who have full sleeve tats, earrings,
all black clothing, biker boots, or what have you. Their fashion sense may
not be yours or mine, but they can be some of the nicest people too.

This is a free country and just because someone is letting their freak flag fly,
it doesn't mean that they have to surrender any of their rights if they are doing nothing
wrong.

I agree with the majority of the posters that you should never grant a LEO consent to
search your vehicle. If they threaten you with calling a K9, or getting a warrant, you
should call their bluff and say "Fine. Do what you have to do."

The K9 may not be on duty that day. Or he might be at the other end of the county.
The cop doesn't want to tie up all day getting someone to issue a warrant.
Make the LEO work for everything that he wants to do.
If his probable cause is shaky, he may not wish to jump through hoops to search
your vehicle.

I appreciate the "thin blue line" that protects us, but the LEO's do not have to be
concerned with my behavior, so I will resist any attempt at a "fishing expedition".

SIA

[Bart]

Rule One is never volunteer for anything
but that might be a close second.

Rule one. Never consent to anything.

[marksiwel]

I appreciate the "thin blue line" that protects us, but the LEO's do not have to be
concerned with my behavior, so I will resist any attempt at a "fishing expedition".

SIA

[dac1842]

Ok, here comes the xcop in me. When I get stopped I of course offer up the DL and CHL, I always tell the officer if I am packing or not, tell him where the weapon is and tell him if he wishes to disarm me for his safety I will not be offended. Why would I do that? I understand the officer's mindset, I know the more cooperative someone is with me, the less likely they are to be a threat to me. This has worked very effectively for me, the officers alway appreciate the information and I have yet to be disarmed, and also, have yet to get a ticket, not that I do it for that reason, but it has worked so far.

[smyrna]

If one (me for instance) has nothing illegal in my vehicle - how often in such a scenario where "I give my consent to a search" will there be a horrendous outcome, that is say, they ruin upholstery/create damage, etc.

Wouldn't it be simpler to give consent, be held up on my journey for a bit, and then go about my merry way - none the worse for wear?

Am I being hopelessly naive?

I find it difficult to believe LEO's will, as a matter of course, mistreat people.

Of course, I don't look, behave or in any way present myself as a street type criminal. I'm a middle aged, (O.K. a little more than middle-aged) well spoken, normally dressed bald, white guy. So my profile, if you will, is rather non-threatening...so I don't feel threatened by such a search.

The real danger is not that the police are mistreating people.

I used to think exactly like you...I have nothing to hide, why wouldn't I consent to a search?

Here's how an attorney that my wife worked for explained it without all the legaleaze so that a country boy like me could understand it.
YOU are responsible for everything found in your car whether it is yours or not. And, their job is to try to find something (whether it's yours or not...they don't care...not their job to figure out how it got there) because they find you suspicious for whatever reason. By consenting to a search, you are putting yourself into a situation that would be harder to defend should something be found.

What are they going to find? I'm a clean guy...no arrests...I don't do drugs...etc. Well, have you ever...
-Turned your car over to the technicians at the jiffy lube,
-Valet parked,
-Had your car picked up for a hand detail and wash,
-Let your teenager and his/her friends drive in your car,
-Let your wife's goofy brother borrow your truck to deliver an appliance,
-Let coworkers carpool with you to a business meeting,
-Let the dealership service the recall ticket on your new car,
-Given your neighbor a ride to the post office,
and the list goes on and on...

The point of all this is that you can't control everything about your car, but you will be responsible for the contents if searched.
-How was I supposed to know grandma's TIC TAC box under the seat was really how she stored her hydrocodone?
-How was I supposed to know the valet parking guys had a crack pipe?
-How was I supposed to know that the oil change guy had a joint fall out of his pocket?
etc, etc, etc.

By consenting to the search, you just relieved the officer of having to have probable cause. You made his job easier! But, more importantly, if something is found and you end up needing legal help, your attorney is going to have a hard time defending you because he won't be able to criticize the officer's actions because you consented to the search.

So, it's really not about "the po-po is out to get everybody." It's about, "do you want to have the best defense possible if something is found in your car and you know indeed that you are innocent?"

YMMV

[srothstein]

If one (me for instance) has nothing illegal in my vehicle - how often in such a scenario where "I give my consent to a search" will there be a horrendous outcome, that is say, they ruin upholstery/create damage, etc.

Wouldn't it be simpler to give consent, be held up on my journey for a bit, and then go about my merry way - none the worse for wear?

Am I being hopelessly naive?

I find it difficult to believe LEO's will, as a matter of course, mistreat people.

Of course, I don't look, behave or in any way present myself as a street type criminal. I'm a middle aged, (O.K. a little more than middle-aged) well spoken, normally dressed bald, white guy. So my profile, if you will, is rather non-threatening...so I don't feel threatened by such a search.

There are three separate areas to consider in this discussion. The first is the tactics of the immediate situation. Cops, as a general rule, do not mistreat people or plant evidence. As a general rule, your car is exactly as clean as you think it is. You might find it easier to consent and let the cop search as the quickest easiest way to go about your business. Consenting and having the cop find nothing is much more likely to result in a warning for the original stop than not cooperating with the cop. Not consenting is much more liekly to result ina ticket. This is just a fact of life. You should take that into consideration also.

The second thing to consider is that the car may not be as clean as you thought, for the reasons others have posted. Or, you could have been stopped by one of those rare corrupt cops who will plant evidence for some unknown reason. In cases like this, you will probably win the legal battles in the long run, but be out a lot of money and effort to do so. I don't recall the town name off hand, but there was a small town on 59 (I think) that was stopping cars and finding reasons to seize cars or property being carried in them, so that the asset seizure money could be used by the department. A number of the officers received "bonuses" for their "work" on these cases. This was just last year or so. And before you think this cannot happen to you, ask yourself if you ever carry cash in your car. Not a lot of cash, but a few twenties. Statistically, the odds now are that trace amounts of drugs can be found on any used twenty in the US. So much cash is used in the drug trade and then passed on that the ones not used get cross contaminated in the bank. Dogs can detect this trace and all of a sudden, cops have a dog alerting on you and your car. Things can go downhill fast. If you happen to have more cash than the cop thinks is normal (say $1,000), it is likely that it will be seized until you prove it is not the profits of the drug trade.

This gives us two immediate concerns to take into account for any specific incident. This is just what will happen when I am stopped by the police on any given stop. A much larger question in some people's minds is the question of precedence for the cops to abuse power. You have to determine how important this is to you. But, if I allow the cops to abuse my rights this time, what will happen next time? What happens when i say yes this time, and after most people saying yes the cops hit the one who does say no? Is he really a criminal who deserves what he gets from the cops, or is he just someone who stands up for his rights? Will the cops recognize this or think he must be a criminal with something to hide? Will they obey his rights when they have predetermined he is a criminal? What happens if that guy is you an you just happened to be in a hurry or a non-cooperative mood?

I place a high importance on this because I want the police to remember they are public servants and are representatives of a limited government. You may feel otherwise and I welcome your opinion. We each must make these decisions on our own and I just wanted you to see my logic and reasoning for advising people to say no. Making the police do their job right every time means criminals go to jail and innocent people do not.

[TexasVet]

After reading some of the post and visiting the flexing your legal rights website I have a question.
If you are carrying and are stopped and the officer asks you do disarm and step out of the car, and you leave the gun on the dashboard or seat and get out and lock the door, can get get into the car to get to your weapon. Or if it's in a compartment and your leave it there when you are told to get out, locking the door on the way out.
One angle I am looking at this from is that you are no longer a threat to him as you cannot readily get to your gun, so he has no more cause to go digging for your gun in the car. You are effectively disarmed, even though he does not have your weapon, neither do you. Thoughts ?
How realistic is this scenario ? Would most officers get you out with your weapon and then disarm you ?
Thanks

[gigag04]

One angle I am looking at this from is that you are no longer a threat to him as you cannot readily get to your gun, so he has no more cause to go digging for your gun in the car. You are effectively disarmed, even though he does not have your weapon, neither do you. Thoughts ?
How realistic is this scenario ? Would most officers get you out with your weapon and then disarm you ?
Thanks

You never cease to be a threat until I drive away from the Jail sully port, leaving you behind.


Most officers will not disarm you. I would definitely not have you get out as you are at a serious tactical disadvantage sitting in the front seat of the vehicle. Depending on where the weapon is on your person, you will have to telegraph a great number of furtive movements to present a weapon and bring it to bear. People have tried it against officers at my department and they ended up shot from a few different angles.

And allow me to clarify, I'm not saying that YOU specifcally are a threat, but everyone is treated as a potential threat. I treat every contact like the driver has a gun, because...it's Texas...he probably does.

[gigag04]

As far as consenting - even if I have nothing in my vehicle, I wouldn't consent. I just don't want people going through my legal stuff.

When I'm working, if I ask for consent and am denied, and I don't have PC to get in the car, I happily let it go. I don't take it personal - sure I've probably let some contraband go, but they will be caught eventually. I would definitely not let a person's consent or denial effect the enforcement action I would take on the violation. I try to have my mind made up on what the outcome will be before I knock the car down. This is a good way to keep things consistent and fair IMO. Sometimes I change my mind, but it's rare.

[marksiwel]

Whats in my car right now.
Just in the trunk
A Hatchet
Batteries
MY Second Bug out Bag (Which has ammo, food,ect)
a Crowbar (for my bug out bag)
A Pistol and some mags and ammo
Flashlights
Matches
Empty propane tank
Ziploc bags

Which one these could cause me to get in trouble?
If this was Pennsylvania Ziploc bags
http://www.metafilter.com/80607/You-got ... aphernalia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theres another case where Matches and a Ziploc bags were considered tools for Meth making and that got the guy a charge.

I'm not taking any chances. No one remembers the arrest for "Police Strength" Pepper Spray?
I am not a cop basher, but I dont trust them anymore than they trust me.

[G.A. Heath]

There are good officers out there, and there are bad officers out there. Most officers are good, just like the majority of people are good, however just like the officers you have to operate under the assumption that you have a bad one until proven otherwise. Your freedom and even your life are at risk if you do not. Do not volunteer info but do not lie, and remember the fifth amendment is your friend. If the officer acts odd, or is out of uniform, demand their department ID and verify that it is legit as they are required to produce it on demand. Another note, since most police cars have video and audio recording you should speak clearly and in the event of being removed from your vehicle be sure to stay where they officer tells you as it will most likely be in view of their car's camera. Make no sudden movements, do not resist an arrest or search (Even if you know for a fact the arrest/search is illegal), and do not talk aggressively. Being Polite and not acting nervous will be to your advantage as well.

[chabouk]

Which one these could cause me to get in trouble?
If this was Pennsylvania Ziploc bags
http://www.metafilter.com/80607/You-got ... aphernalia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theres another case where Matches and a Ziploc bags were considered tools for Meth making and that got the guy a charge.

And your crowbar is a "burglary tool" or "instrument of crime" in some states.

[chabouk]

Here's what it boils down to: I will not beg my way out of a ticket, and trying to trade consent for leniency is begging. And there aren't even any guarantees: he can toss your stuff, write you a ticket, and then leave you on the side of the road trying to put your car back the way it was.

If I get a ticket because the officer is irritated that I won't give consent, then I could have gotten the ticket even with consent. That might mess up my day and my bank account, but it would be my fault for committing the traffic violation, not his fault for catching me.

I'm not worried about the irritated officer, I'm worried about the one out there who is dirty. I don't care if it's one in ten or one in a million, it only takes one to mess up your whole life.