Convicted Felon and CHL Holder

[WhiteHawk]

First post here, so go easy on me... I'm reasonably sure any question I have will already have been discussed, so bare with me... I have two questions along the same lines:

I am legally able to carry a firearm, and do... IF my son is convicted of a felony (non-violent crime) - I'm curious to know how that would play out IF he and I were in my vehicle, and I am legally armed. He's not a convicted felon at the moment, but he might be in a few weeks - we just have to wait and see on that.... he has no transportation, and I will be his only way around, so now I'm a bit concerned how all this would play out.... would he get in trouble for being in a vehicle with a licensed CHL holder who is 'carrying?"

#2 - I've recently hooked up with an old friend who has offered to train me to do what he does for a living - pool maintenance..... the training will require me to either ride with him, or follow him in my truck to various residents throughout the county. Here's the deal - I found out (he told me) that about ten years ago he was sent to prison for a spell - he's now out, and doing good for himself... BUT, as he told me, he is not allowed to be anywhere near a firearm, or he could get in big trouble...... I told him that I *thought* that as long as the weapon is on my person, then he could not get in trouble... OR, as long as I didn't leavce the weapon unattended in his vehicle in a way that would allow him to have access to the weapon.... he's not buying any of this, and is completely freaked out about me possibly getting him in trouble....hopefully, all that makes sense.... any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm all ears..

[USA1]

Welcome to the forum WhiteHawk

As long as the firearm is in your control, there is no problem.

[ScottDLS]

First post here, so go easy on me... I'm reasonably sure any question I have will already have been discussed, so bare with me... I have two questions along the same lines:

I am legally able to carry a firearm, and do... IF my son is convicted of a felony (non-violent crime) - I'm curious to know how that would play out IF he and I were in my vehicle, and I am legally armed. He's not a convicted felon at the moment, but he might be in a few weeks - we just have to wait and see on that.... he has no transportation, and I will be his only way around, so now I'm a bit concerned how all this would play out.... would he get in trouble for being in a vehicle with a licensed CHL holder who is 'carrying?"

#2 - I've recently hooked up with an old friend who has offered to train me to do what he does for a living - pool maintenance..... the training will require me to either ride with him, or follow him in my truck to various residents throughout the county. Here's the deal - I found out (he told me) that about ten years ago he was sent to prison for a spell - he's now out, and doing good for himself... BUT, as he told me, he is not allowed to be anywhere near a firearm, or he could get in big trouble...... I told him that I *thought* that as long as the weapon is on my person, then he could not get in trouble... OR, as long as I didn't leavce the weapon unattended in his vehicle in a way that would allow him to have access to the weapon.... he's not buying any of this, and is completely freaked out about me possibly getting him in trouble....hopefully, all that makes sense.... any input would be greatly appreciated. I'm all ears..

By federal law a convicted felon generally can't "possess" a firearm or ammunition. That doesn't mean that when they walk into Wal-Mart they're breaking the law because Wal-Mart sells ammo. If a cop walks by it doesn't constitute another felony. As you pointed out, if you leave him in a position where he could have unrestricted access to a firearm, he could potentially be in "constructive" possession. Even that would probably require some knowledge on his part to get convicted. Now if he's on probation or parole there can be additional conditions set, but the general federal law prohibition is on "possession".

[joe817]

Hi WhiteHawk and welcome to the forum! Glad to have you with us.

As you can tell there's a wealth of information here right at your fingertips and a wonderful bunch of guys & gals to get to know.

I agree with USA1 & ScottDLS. In fact I asked a criminal defense attorney that very same question, and he said the same....That if the gun is in YOUR control AT ALL TIMES, then the felon is not in jeopardy from violating any law. But the gun has to be in your possession at all times. I interpreted that to mean "on your person". It can't be in a drawer or hidden away while the felon is at your house, or in your car. But that was my interpretation.

[shootthesheet]

I would suggest you get a car safe or two that you can use if your job takes you to a restricted place and you have to lock your gun up when your son or boss is with you. As long as you have the only key or code to the safe you and a felon should be fine as far as I know. I would check with a lawyer who knows the laws concerning felons and guns and not rely on advice or opinion.

[srothstein]

I would point out that your son might be a slightly different story. Since he is not convicted yet, I am jumping to a conclusion that he is out on bail pending a trial. In cases like this, it is just like a parolee or probationer. You have to find the exact wording on the order that released him from jail (bail, parole, or probation) and see what the terms he agreed to are.

The judge might have given him a "no weapons within xxx feet" type of order as part of his (the judge's) standard bail boilerplate and no one has realized it yet.

Obviously, the same is true for your friend if he is still on some type of community supervision. That can last a long time.

In either case, the gun on your person or locked in a gun safe they have no ability to enter should protect them from trouble 99% of the time. The only way to be 100% sure is to leave the gun at home when out with them.

[shootthesheet]

I would point out that your son might be a slightly different story. Since he is not convicted yet, I am jumping to a conclusion that he is out on bail pending a trial. In cases like this, it is just like a parolee or probationer. You have to find the exact wording on the order that released him from jail (bail, parole, or probation) and see what the terms he agreed to are.

The judge might have given him a "no weapons within xxx feet" type of order as part of his (the judge's) standard bail boilerplate and no one has realized it yet.

Obviously, the same is true for your friend if he is still on some type of community supervision. That can last a long time.

In either case, the gun on your person or locked in a gun safe they have no ability to enter should protect them from trouble 99% of the time. The only way to be 100% sure is to leave the gun at home when out with them.

I disagree with "The only way to be 100%" part. I would think talking to a lawyer would be the best way. Nothing concerning the law is 100% in my opinion. And, to suggest a person who is in public not carry because what might be is dangerous for the CHL holder. Not a flame and I agree that to skirt the issue for the felon it might be best the O.P. not carry but this might be a matter of life and death for both the CHL holder and the felon if he does not carry. Like srothstein posted knowing what the felon or whatever can do as to the order is best and that can only be made clear by talking to his/a lawyer.

[TexasGal]

I mean no offense to those who have posted in an effort to be helpful, so please forgive me. The problem with the views everyone is voicing is if the judge does not agree with them, people can get in expensive trouble. A while back, a guy I know was on probation for 6 months for doing something incredibly stupid--soliciting a prostitute who happened to be an undercover vice cop. Even though it was not a felony or a violent crime, per his probation he could not have any guns in his house or any car he was in no matter if they were in someone else's legal possession and control or not. Even if they were in a locked safe he did not know the combination to. This included ammo--even one bullet. It would violate his probation per his lawyer, and his probation officer who knew the attitude of the court on it (which was harsh). That's the way the Houston judge wrote the probation order. They were quite clear and stern about it. No exceptions no way no how. So for 6 months, his wife lost her 2nd amendment rights at home just because she lived in the same house with him. If she wanted to be armed, he could not be around. She had to keep the guns and ammo off the property and ride in separate cars if she was armed. It is possible you will too if your son has to be in your car or in your house. Please get very clear legal advice from an attorney who is intimately familiar with the state and federal laws and specific cases of each of the two situations you are encountering. This lawyer should be very familiar with your local court which would handle any infraction and know how the judge(s) have been interpreting these situations. (Don't forget this info could change if a problem happens in another jurisdiction) It's just my 2 cents, but also my unpleasant personal experience.

[srothstein]

I disagree with "The only way to be 100%" part. I would think talking to a lawyer would be the best way. Nothing concerning the law is 100% in my opinion.

This is why I said the only way to be 100% is to be unarmed. Not safe or my preferred method, but, as TexasGal pointed out, the judge and the lawyer may not agree. Getting all the legal advice in the world can only make you 99%, and the only way to be guaranteed no legal problems with weapons is to have no weapons there.

[shootthesheet]

I disagree with "The only way to be 100%" part. I would think talking to a lawyer would be the best way. Nothing concerning the law is 100% in my opinion.

This is why I said the only way to be 100% is to be unarmed. Not safe or my preferred method, but, as TexasGal pointed out, the judge and the lawyer may not agree. Getting all the legal advice in the world can only make you 99%, and the only way to be guaranteed no legal problems with weapons is to have no weapons there.

[Dragonfighter]

I mean no offense to those who have posted in an effort to be helpful, so please forgive me. The problem with the views everyone is voicing is if the judge does not agree with them, people can get in expensive trouble. A while back, a guy I know was on probation for 6 months for doing something incredibly stupid--soliciting a prostitute who happened to be an undercover vice cop.

AND

So for 6 months, his wife lost her 2nd amendment rights at home just because she lived in the same house with him. If she wanted to be armed, he could not be around. She had to keep the guns and ammo off the property and ride in separate cars if she was armed.

This begs the question, why did she give up her 2A rights as opposed to him giving up his residence. She must be an incredibly forgiving person.

I believe I would have appealed the terms of that probation, that judge (unless there's something I'm missing) exceeded his constitutional authority by orders of magnitude.

Thanks for sharing this, it is a good illustration of anti RKBA attitudes in LE and Judiciary circles run amok. We are well advised to be cognizant of things like this popping up.

[TexasGal]

I mean no offense to those who have posted in an effort to be helpful, so please forgive me. The problem with the views everyone is voicing is if the judge does not agree with them, people can get in expensive trouble. A while back, a guy I know was on probation for 6 months for doing something incredibly stupid--soliciting a prostitute who happened to be an undercover vice cop.

AND

So for 6 months, his wife lost her 2nd amendment rights at home just because she lived in the same house with him. If she wanted to be armed, he could not be around. She had to keep the guns and ammo off the property and ride in separate cars if she was armed.

This begs the question, why did she give up her 2A rights as opposed to him giving up his residence. She must be an incredibly forgiving person.

I believe I would have appealed the terms of that probation, that judge (unless there's something I'm missing) exceeded his constitutional authority by orders of magnitude.

Thanks for sharing this, it is a good illustration of anti RKBA attitudes in LE and Judiciary circles run amok. We are well advised to be cognizant of things like this popping up.

That is just the attitude of the courts in Houston these days. I was told virtually every probation has this gun ban in it even for minor offenses. When the oversight of the probation was moved up to Fort Worth, the new probation officer confirmed the same thing would go here.

Remember Bill White the democrat running for Governor was the Mayor of Houston. He was a member of Bloomberg's infamous Mayors Against Illegal Guns Coalition until recently. He presumably dropped his membership to make himself more appealing to Texas voters. He is also a lawyer. Watch out if this guy gets elected. He likes New York style gun laws. He served under Clinton too.

It did seem terribly unfair for a law abiding person to be so greatly affected by the illegal actions of a family member. I was told the courts were trying to limit the things in the probationer's environment that could get him into more trouble, but that makes little sense to me when the offense was not violent in nature and had nothing to do with guns, drugs, or alcohol.
As for why the wife gave up her 2A rights vs having him give up his residence...don't think that question didn't cross her mind several times a day along with a thousand others.