Is this not AMERICA anymore...

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/31/pu ... commenting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know its long but read the entire story...its worth it. This is just sick and this is NOT what American soldiers die for.

[The Annoyed Man]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/31/pu ... commenting

I know its long but read the entire story...its worth it. This is just sick and this is NOT what American soldiers die for.

I would amend your title to "Chicago is not America anymore....", except that, unfortunately, it still is. If it weren't, I would give two used pieces of bubblegum for whatever happens there. But, Chicago is still part of my country, and the wrong that happens there still concerns me very much.

@ SmoothFox: Since when is discussion about Freedom of Speech issues against forum rules?

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

How is this against forum rules? I am not discussing any religion. It is about how this man was arrested because he was praying...First Amendment violation.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

TAM beat me to it...

[The Annoyed Man]

TAM beat me to it...

I guess that you're a "nitwit pushing the envelope" if exercising your free speech rights puts you at disagreement with an atheist.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

TAM beat me to it...

I guess that you're a "nitwit pushing the envelope" if exercising your free speech rights puts you at disagreement with an atheist.

I guess so

[longtooth]

I've been called worse.
Count it all joy to be a fool for Christ.
LT

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

What gets me is that he/she was complaining that this might violate forum rules yet he/she is the one calling names.

And you wonder why religion is against forum rules

[A-R]

Interesting story. Thanks for the post XD45.

If we want to bring this around to a CHL-type discussion, there are some interesting parallels to Trespass laws in Texas.

For instance, if the praying man was not in fact breaking the ordinance but was subsequently asked to leave by someone with "apparent authority" to speak for Planned Parenthood, perhaps under Chicago law (guessing: no idea what ChiTown law really says) that would be the equivalent of effective "notice" under Texas PC 30.06 and his failure to depart constitutes "blocking the entrance" ?

Anyway, just some off the cuff thoughts to bring this incident back to a CHL-related discussion.

[The Annoyed Man]

I've been called worse.
Count it all joy to be a fool for Christ.
LT

We'll be fools together.

Arrogance is an interesting thing. One certainly has a right to one's opinion. And I guess that one certainly has the right to be arrogant about that opinion. But one does not have the right to duck the fire it's going to draw when the arrogance goes on display. If someone is going to be arrogant, then they need to back it up.

[cheezit]

IMO the guy got the ride he was willing to fight for. I think the local leo was right to arrest him... I do think he may have used the wrong reason.
Unlawful trust pass, disordly conduct, disturbing the peace, loitering. Im sure there are a few more.
Bottom line the guy was asked to leave, he FAILED.


"The arrogant assumes his views and opinions are The Truth"

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

Tresspassing- He was on a public sidewalk
Disorderly Conduct- He was praying the Rosary
Disturbing the Peace- He was praying the rosary
Loitering- You get issued a citation and are told to leave NOT arrested

In order to get disorderly conduct he must have been acting in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace. To get disturbing the peace he must have been making a excessively loud noise.

NEXT!

[cheezit]

Tresspassing- He was on a public sidewalk
Disorderly Conduct- He was praying the Rosary
Disturbing the Peace- He was praying the rosary
Loitering- You get issued a citation and are told to leave NOT arrested

In order to get disorderly conduct he must have been acting in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace. To get disturbing the peace he must have been making a excessively loud noise.

NEXT!

if he was with in the 8' zone it would be tresspass.

disorderly conduct making patrons of the hostpital feel uncomfortable is a form of impeading people

disturbing the peace.... well you said it. and wikki defines it as..... Disturbing the peace is a crime generally defined as the unsettling of proper order in a public space through one's actions. This can include creating loud noise by fighting or challenging to fight, disturbing others by loud and unreasonable noise (including loud music or dog barking), or using offensive words or insults likely to incite violence.

Loitering- You get issued a citation and are told to leave NOT arrested and I dont disagree to this one at all.

[A-R]

Tresspassing- He was on a public sidewalk
Disorderly Conduct- He was praying the Rosary
Disturbing the Peace- He was praying the rosary
Loitering- You get issued a citation and are told to leave NOT arrested

In order to get disorderly conduct he must have been acting in such unreasonable manner as to alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace. To get disturbing the peace he must have been making a excessively loud noise.

NEXT!

if he was with in the 8' zone it would be tresspass.

disorderly conduct making patrons of the hostpital feel uncomfortable is a form of impeading people

disturbing the peace.... well you said it. and wikki defines it as..... Disturbing the peace is a crime generally defined as the unsettling of proper order in a public space through one's actions. This can include creating loud noise by fighting or challenging to fight, disturbing others by loud and unreasonable noise (including loud music or dog barking), or using offensive words or insults likely to incite violence.

Loitering- You get issued a citation and are told to leave NOT arrested and I dont disagree to this one at all.

I think the particulars of the 8' zone in this Chicago law would be the determining factor for a trespassing violation. Disturbing the peace and disorderly conduct seem a stretch, UNLESS he was beligerent, loud, obnoxious etc. when asked to leave - then perhaps there was enough there to justify an arrest. Dont' know, just speculating.

Loitering is a ticket and a "get lost" but if you don't heed that warning to scram, then it usually escalates the situation to an arrestable offense, correct? Disturbing the peace, failing to follow the lawful order of a peace officer? Something along those lines.

Again, all just guesses/speculation on my part.

If the guy truly was just standing on the sidewalk and praying, then he should sue the police and Planned Parenthood in Federal Court on a number of civil rights violations.

My guess is the truth lies where it always does - somewhere in between the two sides' version of events.

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

I think you need to look at the bubble zone ordinance again and also look up what trespass means.

Disturbing the peace has to do with loud noises and if he was in violation its a CITATION. If that is the case it will be VERY alarming as Muslims can pray on the street during prayer time but he cant say the Rosary ( I am NOT against Islam. I studied it in College and I believe it to be a peaceful religion. Its the only one I could think of that has a public prayer).

He was not in violation of disorderly conduct as he did NOT approach anyone nor was he passing out any literature. He was not engaging in oral protest, he was praying the rosary.