Bear defense tactics: Pros & cons of guns vs. bear spray.

[7075-T7]

My bear defense strategy can be summed up in 3 easy words.

Rocket. Propelled. Chainsaw.

[Oldgringo]

The bears were here long before the incursion of the tailess-bipeds. Long before the tailess-bipeds arrived, the bears lived in harmony with nature and each other according to the laws of nature.

The problems and fears cited are not about the invasion of the tailess-bipeds' homes by bears. The problems are the direct result of the invasion of the bears' homes by the tailess-bipeds (it's kinda' like Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.).

The tailess-biped herd needs thinning if counseling fails.

[74novaman]

the bears lived in harmony with nature and each other according to the laws of nature.

like this?

[Oldgringo]

the bears lived in harmony with nature and each other according to the laws of nature.

like this?

Yes, exactly like that.

[seamusTX]

A National Park Service spokeswoman announced today that no charges would be filed against the shooter in this case. However, she advised making nice with the bears instead of shooting them.

The bear was found dead the day after the shooting. It was an "older' male and weighed 434 pounds.

http://www.examiner.com/x-53313-Bear-At ... y-shooting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://newsminer.com/view/full_story/89 ... left_top_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.adn.com/2010/07/30/1388526/m ... enali.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

[Keith B]

A National Park Service spokeswoman announced today that no charges would be filed against the shooter in this case. However, she advised making a nice snack for the bears instead of shooting them.

The bear was found dead the day after the shooting. It was an "older' male and weighed 434 pounds.

http://www.examiner.com/x-53313-Bear-At ... y-shooting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://newsminer.com/view/full_story/89 ... left_top_3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.adn.com/2010/07/30/1388526/m ... enali.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

There fixed it for you Jim.

Seriously, if it is a black bear, you rarely are gonna have a issue, but you can. Grizzlies are another story. Black bears are herbivores and eat berries and nuts. Grizzlies are meat eaters.

There is a story from the rangers in Yellowstone about how to keep bears from getting you. They tell you black bears are afraid of noise, so wear small bells on a string around your neck and you can carry pepper spray. And if you come across bear droppings (scat), that you can tell what kind of bear had been around by what is in it. Black bear scat will have little berries and nuts in it. Grizzly bear droppings will have little bells and smell like pepper spray.

I had a couple of black bear run-ins years ago when at one of the high adventure Boy Scout posts in Minnesota and canoing for 7 days through the Quetico park boundary waters.

We had a black bear come into one of our remote camps one night and we were able to run it off by just making a lot of noise. No biggie, but we were all restless the rest of the night hearing things (except our guide who was back asleep within about 2 minutes and snoring.)

When we got back to base camp a couple of days later, they had a Webelo camp out going on in the base camp. A sow and two small cubs had wandered into the camp and were rummaging around. Some of the young boys started chasing the cubs Big no-no!

The camp leaders quickly got the young boys all gathered up and isolated. They then grabbed our group (8 of us all 16 - 18 yrs old), assigned one of us each to a guide, and we went to track down the bears and keep them in sight until the game warden could arrive to extricate them.

The guide I was with and I had just passed the dining hall when we heard a loud crash and glass breaking. We turned around in time to see the south end of a north bound bear heading up the trail away from us. Apparently someone had seen the doors to the food storage area under the dining hall open and closed them, not knowing the momma was inside. She decided she was tired of being trapped and came out the big window made of 1'x1' glass squares.

We did finally find her and the cubs down by their garbage dump about the time the game warden showed up. He shot her with a tranquilizer and once she was out we helped load her in the cage on the truck. The cubs were hanging around close and we were able to form a line of guys and guide them up the ramp and into the cage with mom. They carted them off to release them quite a ways from the camp.

Dealing with a irate black bear mother can be bad enough, but I am sure I don't ever want to run into a grizzly out in the wild. They are not Yogi nicely looking for pic-a-nic baskets.

EDIT TO ADD: I also noticed from the article that the hikers were from 'North Pole'. I understand elves are considered a delicacy to grizzles.

[almostfree]

I lived in North Pole for six months. It's an over-priced dump! Just kidding, it's not that bad if you enjoy -60 degrees fahrenheit.

I am a land surveyor by trade and I have worked extensively in Alaska around bears in some very remote locations. I carried a rifle and a S&W 629 everywhere that I went, however, it was only for my piece of mind. I've seen a bear charge (thankfully it was bluff) and your reaction time is zero if you are the object of that charge. You can pretty much count on being munched on while you defend yourself. I'd say carry both a firearm and bear spray and if you get the chance to use one then use whatever seems appropriate at the time. Having said all that, it is pretty rare that people get mauled by bears. 99% of the time that I saw them they ran the other way without hesitation.

[rdcrags]

Last summer, I was within 6 feet of a black bear. Of course, I was sitting at my desk and it was outside the window looking at me. As far as firing a handgun at one: When I am out on the trails, if I encounter one (I have encountered 3 moose together on the trail, about 20 yards from me), I intend to fire shots in the air, as a way of making noise. I wouldn't dream of hitting one. It might make it made at me. Like saying on Saturday that Tiger Woods can be beaten, then having to compete with him the next day.

TX CHL 1997
CO CHP 2005

[7075-T7]

Last summer, I was within 6 feet of a black bear. Of course, I was sitting at my desk and it was outside the window looking at me. As far as firing a handgun at one: When I am out on the trails, if I encounter one (I have encountered 3 moose together on the trail, about 20 yards from me), I intend to fire shots in the air, as a way of making noise. I wouldn't dream of hitting one. It might make it made at me. Like saying on Saturday that Tiger Woods can be beaten, then having to compete with him the next day.

TX CHL 1997
CO CHP 2005

Sounds like both situations require the use of a female decoy... ESPECIALLY with Tiger

[rdcrags]

Sounds like both situations require the use of a female decoy... ESPECIALLY with Tiger

Actually, where I hike, some hikers use what they call Sacrificial Dogs (SDs) to fight the wild animal while the owner escapes.

[Paladin]

Proven defense against bears:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PerOmnky0kA

[Bitter Clinger]

Pennsylvania man kills 679-pound male black bear at 5 yards with .357 handgun: report

A Pennsylvania man reportedly killed a 679-pound black bear that was five yards away with a .357 handgun during last weekend's opening of the state's four-day bear harvest.

https://www.foxnews.com/great-outdoors/ ... 57-handgun

[srothstein]

Pepper spray is the best way to go; it will repel any bear, from an attacking grizzly to a docile black bear. A statistical (U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service report) fact is that when using a bear spray, 100% of the humans escape intact and without damage, while when using a gun, 50% of the time both the human and the bear will suffer injury or death.

Welcome to the forum Xorremana.

I think you might be trying to persuade the wrong group about the effectiveness of guns versus bear spray, but you are welcome to try. I will point out that the statistics you quoted are not correct though. I cannot find any studies on the effectiveness of guns against bears and for it to be accurate it would need to compare the type of weapon used. Part of the debate here centers on just how much gun is needed.

But in my disbelief of the 100% efficacy rate of bear spray I did a little search and found some interesting studies. These are done by professionals and published in peer reviewed journals using google scholar. With the search term of "bear spray effectiveness", the very first study found shows it to be highly effective but NOT the 100% you state. It had a 98% effectiveness leaving the humans unharmed. Brown bears managed to injure 3 people anyway. This study included 61 brown, 20 black, and 2 polar bears. Unfortunately, the study did not break down which subspecies of brown bear was involved, so it might be any mixture of Sitka, Kodiak, Grizzly, or Dall Island, or Alaska Peninsula brown bears (I did not know there were that many subspecies to brown bear until I looked this up just now). It was based on reviews of reported incidents in Alaska, so it is incomplete because successful incidents might not have been reported.

A study on fatal black bear attacks in the US and Canada shows that you might be correct about some "innocent" bears involved. Of the 63 cases studied, they ruled the bear acted in a predatory manner in only 88% of them. They did point out that the population of people encroaching on bear territory was partially at fault and in 38% of the cases, it was people leaving food or garbage out that lured the bears to the area. Interestingly (to me), they found that it was more often males and came to the conclusion that mother bears with cubs were not the most dangerous in actual attacks. I wonder if that is because people learned to avoid mothers with cubs or if they really are not as dangerous as males.

Anyway, I would appreciate if you had a source for your point about the effectiveness of bear spray being 100% and guns only 50%. That doesn't seem logical to me, even though I grant that bear spray appears to be pretty effective and I acknowledge that too small a gun would not be.

[JustSomeOldGuy]

Last summer, I was within 6 feet of a black bear. Of course, I was sitting at my desk and it was outside the window looking at me. As far as firing a handgun at one: When I am out on the trails, if I encounter one (I have encountered 3 moose together on the trail, about 20 yards from me), I intend to fire shots in the air, as a way of making noise. I wouldn't dream of hitting one. It might make it made at me. Like saying on Saturday that Tiger Woods can be beaten, then having to compete with him the next day.

TX CHL 1997
CO CHP 2005

Cooper Rule#4. You mean't "into the ground, right?". I just might be in those woods too.....

[G26ster]

While flying the Alaska bush, I landed and remained on the ground in many remote areas hundreds of miles from any human. On the north slope of AK, polar bears were the most dangerous and feared, followed by grizzly. On Kodiak Island the Kodiak Brown Bear is king of the bush. Never heard of bear spray the entire 11 years I lived there. Anyone wishing to defend against bear usually had a shotgun with bear slugs. I was always amazed though by the native Alaskan's calmness near bears, knowing that usually the slightest noise would spook them to run away. That of course did not apply after hibrination, or dending cubs or territory. To me, the most dangerous animal there was the wolverine. I've had them attack my aircraft more than once, on the ground, blades turning, and turbine screaming. Absolutely no fear on their part. Fortunately they can't eat metal. Moose also can be far more of a dangerous than bears.