Kel-Tec SUB 2000

[denwego]

My girlfriend came with me to Collector's Firearms here in Houston the other day, and fiddled around with a Beretta CX4 for a bit while I was looking at shotguns. She likes shooting my Winchester in .45LC, and suddenly realizing that there are semiauto carbines in pistol calibers as well as lever guns, she's fallen in love. I mentioned that she might like a SUB 2000 more, if for no other reason the price point, but we haven't seen any around in the usual haunts (Collectors, Carter's Country, Fountain). Has anyone happened to see any in the Houston area? I figure we'll be going to the gun show on the weekend of the 14th, but if there's a place offering them cheaply, it'd be nice to go beforehand as well.

Also, if anyone happens to own one, your input and thoughts on how they shoot are much desired!

[cajunautoxer]

The show I went to a couple of months ago had some in 9mm and I want to say they we're asking around $280-300 range

[mctowalot]

Check with Black Gold Guns and Ammo. They have a website, but me not know how to post links - ug.

Tell 'em mctowalot sent ya.

[flb_78]

I had a Sub2000 in 9mm that took Glock mags. It was fun to shoot with 33rd mags! Plus, the ability to fold up allowed me to carry it in the trunk on my motorcycle.

[Dan20703]

I had a Sub2000 in 9mm that took Glock mags. It was fun to shoot with 33rd mags! Plus, the ability to fold up allowed me to carry it in the trunk on my motorcycle.

It would fit into my computer bag and hide well.

It's a black hole for ammo too!

[denwego]

Thanks, all! I'll check out Black Gold Guns this weekend.

[RECIT]

I don't need a Kelt-Tec but I also want to check out Black Gold Guns. Its kinda far for me so I have to really WANT to go there cause its not convenient at all. But I hear the owner is a stand up guy and they have some neat stuff.

[jordanmills]

I have one in 9 mm that takes glock mags. I cut the grip down so it takes Glock 19 mags (in addition to the G17 mags it took stock). I love it. Keep in mind, you're getting what you pay for - it's a low cost folding pistol caliber carbine. But it's lots of fun to shoot and fits in almost any pack.

You're welcome to shoot mine if you want to try one out before you buy.

[mctowalot]

How are they when it comes to reliability? Do they jam a lot?

[jordanmills]

How are they when it comes to reliability? Do they jam a lot?

mine ain't the best. She does poorly on the last round or two in a 33er. Or when you fire really fast. But it's reasonably reliable at other times.

[fenster]

I have one . it's the longer companion to my glock 22. had it for a few years now.

PROs:
the ability to fold is very cool. I did a road tour of the western states last summer (at least the Free states). the sub2k took up very little room and rode inconspicuously in a laptop bag. since that trip, it goes with me on all my road trips. it can be safely stored with a full mag (mag is on one side of the hinge, chamber and bbl on the other), so is very quick to make ready if needed.

simple - there's just not much to it. for cleaning, the bolt, spring and recoil mass come out the back. easy to clean, re-lube and reinstall.

reliable - at least for me, using factory glock mags. I must be coming up on 1K rds thru mine, including use at a couple carbine matches. can't think of a time it didn't go bang when I needed it to.

CONs:
trigger pull on mine is quite heavy, and hasn't lightened over time. heavy trigger + plastic trigger, makes for a sorta mushy feeling.

ergonomics are very cramped for a guy my size: 6', long arms. they sell this stock extender thing, but that would make the folded package bigger. not worth it for me.

accuracy is not great. with my buddy's Beretta Storm, we could reliably hit a man-size target out to 100ys. with the group size I got from my sub2K, I'd have to bring in the target to 50yds or so to get the same hit rate. the trigger contributes to this issue. also, the aperture in the peep sight seems to be more suited for the closer ranges.

[denwego]

Thanks a bunch for the additional breakdown, everyone! The ability to hit something further out than 50 yards isn't a huge priority for her or me; it'd be a defensive gun, so the notion of hitting something outside of confrontation range isn't as important as reliability closer in. And I think I'd get the stock extender for myself, but she's sized that we think the inherently shorter stock would be good for her.

Has anyone tried shooting hollowpoints through them? Direct blowback means the spring is probably strong enough to feed anything, but you never know.

[Tireshred]

I have one in 9mm, I bought it from AJC at a recent Fun Show for $300, it accepts all Glock mags. It seems to favor heavier bullets, but shoots all reliably. I recently added the stock extension from Kel Tec, it helps since I'm 6'3" and it doesn't make it any longer folded, you can see it has room to the end of the barrel from the stock when folded, the extension doesn't go past that. I also added the charging handle cover and bolt tube cover from http://www.tacticoolproducts.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . It will destroy the target at 25 yards with the KCI 33rd mags. One of my friends fell in love with it too and bought one in 40 S&W, he said it's more fun than the law allows. I love the gun and look forward to shooting it more.

[mr surveyor]

I've owned both the KT S2K as well as the Beretta Storm (both used the Beretta 92 mags), and both were great. Yes, the CX4 was more accurate out beyond 50 yards, but I never felt a need to shoot beyond 50 yards anyway. The S2K is the one I wish I had back. Quality wise, the Beretta is obviously built to a higher standard, but the little KT was much more versatile, considering the folding ability. You can trick it out with rails, optics, lasers, lights and all the other so called "tacticool" stuff, but then you give up the greatest attribute of all.... folding an almost instantly made ready 16 inch barrel carbine into an 18 inch container that fits almost any vehicle. I traded my S2K for a KT P32 for my wife about 5 years ago, and she's still content with the trade. Recently traded the CX4 for 2 new Mossberg Mavs (one 18" one 28"), some ammo, and a bit of cash. For the purpose I was keeping the carbines around, I figure the shorty 12 ga will do better for me.

I will probably pick up another Sub2k someday... I really miss that little jewell. And, as for the hi-cap mags.... the Glock hi-caps may do fine, but the Beretta aftermarket stuff from pro-mag isn't worth even trying. I still have 4-5 of them that were just as useless in both the Sub2K and CX4.

If you do get the Sub2K, DO NOT USE ALUMINUM CASED AMMO! You can use steel cased...at the risk of damage to the extractor, but it shouldn't result in a possible k-boom like the aluminum case ammo could.

The Sub2K is a great gun for the bug out bag.


surv

[flb_78]

I shot aluminum cased stuff in my sub2000. Shot fine for me.

I also liked the fact that I could actually watch the bullet trajectory when shooting the sub2000.