Question for those who carry OWB

[radioflyer]

After reviewing the 09-10 TxCHL laws, i was unable to find the answer to this question.

When carrying OWB, with a jacket, overshirt or other form of concealment, if the bottom portion of the hoslter becomes exposed, is that considered brandishing or exposing your weapon?

Reason i ask is that with fall/winter approaching I would prefer to carry OWB for easier access but my jacket doesn't always completely conceal the bottom of my holster (mostly when reaching for things or sitting down)

[rm9792]

I believe that would depend on the officer, the holster and amount of exposure. My Old World Leather doesnt look as much like a holster as my Fobus does. I am sure i have exposed mine at times but it has never been an issue. Bangers and such dont use holsters so that might help in some situations.

[OldCannon]

I suggest getting a longer jacket. It's cheaper than explaining to a judge that you really weren't trying to scare people.

Shoulder rigs are another option, although in a real "need to draw" situation, a shoulder rig can be extremely dangerous.

[The Annoyed Man]

The legal term is "intentional failure to conceal." There is no law against brandishing. A CHL holder may not intentionally fail to conceal their weapon. Unless your weapon protrudes below the bottom of your holster, such as with a slide type holster, your gun has not become unconcealed - your holster has. And unintentional failure to conceal is not the same thing as drawing your weapon. And if they see your holster, they still haven't seen your gun.

What if there was no gun in the holster? Imagine that you've secured your weapon in your car because you're about to enter a 30.06 posted building. As you walk through the door, a gust of wind whips up your shirt tails, and exposes part of your (empty) holster for a second. Have you broken a law? No, you haven't. 30.06 says you can't carry a gun past the sign. It doesn't say anything about an empty holster. So, if you are armed, and the wind in the Walmart parking lot exposes part of your holster for a second, have you exposed your gun? No.

Now, I'm not suggesting that it is OK to expose your holster, but there isn't almost anybody who carries who, sooner or later, hasn't had the wind blow their shirt up, momentarily exposing their weapon.

A year ago or so, one of our members got arrested, and had to spend some money on attorneys, because his shirt rode up and actually exposed the gun momentarily to a woman standing behind him in a line. But that was a rare occurrence. Just make sure you dress appropriately to cover an OWB holster, and then quit worrying about it. However, if your jacket choice will routinely expose part of your holster when reaching for things or sitting down, then either your jacket needs to be exchanged for one that's longer, or you need to start carrying IWB.

[Pawpaw]

Shoulder rigs are another option, although in a real "need to draw" situation, a shoulder rig can be extremely dangerous.

How so?

[The Annoyed Man]

I carry in a shoulder rig sometimes. My draw time is slightly slower than from the hip, and you may unintentionally sweep someone with the muzzle when drawing from the shoulder holster. There is a drill to avoid this, but it has to be rehearsed to get it right.

[radioflyer]

Thanks for clearing that up. So far all my OWB holsters are "ghost" style with exposed barrels. I'm searching for full-bodied replacements. I remember one instance of carrying OWB and having to keep my jacket zipped to make sure the elastic part of the bottom kept the barrel covered. I won't be doing that again.

as for now, i'm patiantly awaiting cooler weather. I could OWB carry now with a larger overshirt or jacket, but i might have my sanity questioned in 100+ heat.

The legal term is "intentional failure to conceal." There is no law against brandishing. A CHL holder may not intentionally fail to conceal their weapon. Unless your weapon protrudes below the bottom of your holster, such as with a slide type holster, your gun has not become unconcealed - your holster has. And unintentional failure to conceal is not the same thing as drawing your weapon. And if they see your holster, they still haven't seen your gun.

What if there was no gun in the holster? Imagine that you've secured your weapon in your car because you're about to enter a 30.06 posted building. As you walk through the door, a gust of wind whips up your shirt tails, and exposes part of your (empty) holster for a second. Have you broken a law? No, you haven't. 30.06 says you can't carry a gun past the sign. It doesn't say anything about an empty holster. So, if you are armed, and the wind in the Walmart parking lot exposes part of your holster for a second, have you exposed your gun? No.

Now, I'm not suggesting that it is OK to expose your holster, but there isn't almost anybody who carries who, sooner or later, hasn't had the wind blow their shirt up, momentarily exposing their weapon.

A year ago or so, one of our members got arrested, and had to spend some money on attorneys, because his shirt rode up and actually exposed the gun momentarily to a woman standing behind him in a line. But that was a rare occurrence. Just make sure you dress appropriately to cover an OWB holster, and then quit worrying about it. However, if your jacket choice will routinely expose part of your holster when reaching for things or sitting down, then either your jacket needs to be exchanged for one that's longer, or you need to start carrying IWB.

[redlin67]

Granted, my preferred carry is not a full size handgun, but I only use OWB at about 2:30 to 3:00. I have a Don Hume that keeps everything tight against my abdomen and love handles. I wear the same shirts that I normally wear, not tight, but not overly loose. It is difficult for the casual observer to notice anything. The barrel does not protrude below the holster, so if my shirt rides up a bit when I reach overhead or when I sit, all that anyone sees is a hint of black leather, which could be anything.

[45 4 life]

Guys I will tell you this, I have been here in Topeka KS for 6 weeks now. There are no "Printing" rules or laws in Kansas, as a matter of fact open carry is legal in Topeka. I have been trying to really look for people who are "Printing" and openly carrying, and have not noticed a single incident. Add to that the fact that I intentionally hang out at the gun friendly places in town, I am very surprised.

I think that we Texans are just a little paranoid because of our printing rules. Which should really be done away with. When you reach for something on that high shelf, or bend down no one is watching you to see if you are armed. Since there are no rules here I have worn some clothing that I would not have considerd in Texas, and have had no problems.

Not to hijack the thread, and certainly not to start beating the dead pony. I have not seen anyone OCing. According to the locals, Kansas is OC friendly, and the cities can decide for themselves on the issue of open carry. When I first arrived it was in all of the papers as the Topeka city council had just voted to allow OC.

But I still miss Texas

[Excaliber]

The legal term is "intentional failure to conceal." There is no law against brandishing. A CHL holder may not intentionally fail to conceal their weapon. Unless your weapon protrudes below the bottom of your holster, such as with a slide type holster, your gun has not become unconcealed - your holster has. And unintentional failure to conceal is not the same thing as drawing your weapon. And if they see your holster, they still haven't seen your gun.

What if there was no gun in the holster? Imagine that you've secured your weapon in your car because you're about to enter a 30.06 posted building. As you walk through the door, a gust of wind whips up your shirt tails, and exposes part of your (empty) holster for a second. Have you broken a law? No, you haven't. 30.06 says you can't carry a gun past the sign. It doesn't say anything about an empty holster. So, if you are armed, and the wind in the Walmart parking lot exposes part of your holster for a second, have you exposed your gun? No.

Now, I'm not suggesting that it is OK to expose your holster, but there isn't almost anybody who carries who, sooner or later, hasn't had the wind blow their shirt up, momentarily exposing their weapon.

A year ago or so, one of our members got arrested, and had to spend some money on attorneys, because his shirt rode up and actually exposed the gun momentarily to a woman standing behind him in a line. But that was a rare occurrence. Just make sure you dress appropriately to cover an OWB holster, and then quit worrying about it. However, if your jacket choice will routinely expose part of your holster when reaching for things or sitting down, then either your jacket needs to be exchanged for one that's longer, or you need to start carrying IWB.

That says it all.

[Kythas]

I guess it depends on where you are and who sees you.

When I was a cop, I was in a mall in Jefferson Parish, LA. I was carrying OWB with a shirt concealing. This was before Louisiana passed their CHL law.

Apparently, as I was reaching up to get something, my weapon (or maybe just my holster) became unconcealed. Someone saw it and called the Jefferson Parish Sheriff's Office of a man with a gun. As I'm continuing my shopping, two JPSO deputies approached me and drew down on me. One of them asked me if I had a gun and I replied I did and I was a cop. I told them my badge and ID were in my left back pocket but I wasn't about to reach for them (my arms were as far above my head as I could put them at the time).

One of the deputies retrieved my gun, badge, and ID and confirmed I was a cop. They both then apologized and explained about the "man with a gun" call as they uncuffed me.

I learned two things from that:

1. Start carrying IWB when not on duty.
2. If I did carry OWB, clip my badge to my belt immediately adjacent to my weapon. That way, if someone saw my gun, they'd probably also see my badge.

Since I'm no longer a cop, Option #1 is my only option at this point - unless I pick up a CHL badge!

If Texas ever legalizes open carry, I may carry OWB again, but would still do so concealed. Otherwise, I'm 100% IWB. It's much easier to keep concealed.

[RPBrown]

I only carry OWB with my XD45 or any of the 1911's as I am not getting larger pants (trying to lose weight). However, my cell phone holder sticks lower that the bottom of any of my pistols or holsters. When I buy a holster, I try to get one that rides higher up than the bottom of my shirt or jacket.
Otherwise, look into IWB or a smaller weapon for your pocket.

[connectme3504]

I carry OWB in the summer and nothing is exposed. You we need a longer shirt.

[radioflyer]

I only carry OWB with my XD45 or any of the 1911's as I am not getting larger pants (trying to lose weight). However, my cell phone holder sticks lower that the bottom of any of my pistols or holsters. When I buy a holster, I try to get one that rides higher up than the bottom of my shirt or jacket.
Otherwise, look into IWB or a smaller weapon for your pocket.

one more perk of CHL: it makes you loose weight

As of now, IWB is my only option, but the waist issue is what bugs me most. When winter rolls around and i can carry OWB comfortably, i will be a happy camper.

[jroberts1968]

I carry in a OWB and have had a few exposures most people think I'm a LEO and pay no attention.
I posted this in another thread but my two LE friends feel most bad guys don't use holster especially Belt rigs.
Now I think if you carrying in the front waist band area and the the gun is exposed in a 7-11 then yeah maybe the person freaks a bit.
I really feel it is how one deals with a situation and how they carry them selves.