Dripping Springs parks

[ghostrider]

I noticed this in the Park ordinances for Dripping Springs (http://www.cityofdrippingsprings.com/in ... ource/park" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):

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4.09 Weapons and Firearams

A. Patrons shall not carry or possess weapons while in park facilities.
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I believe all the parks listed on the above URL are city property and therefore cannot prohibit CHL carry. I've not been to any of the parks, so I don't know if they have any signs.

[AJ80]

Well, Lufkin apparently has a similar city ordinance.

http://www.amlegal.com/nxt/gateway.dll/ ... 3.0#LPHit1
§ 96.20(G)

[RPB]

I noticed this in the Park ordinances for Dripping Springs (http://www.cityofdrippingsprings.com/in ... ource/park" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):

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4.09 Weapons and Firearams

A. Patrons shall not carry or possess weapons while in park facilities.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe all the parks listed on the above URL are city property and therefore cannot prohibit CHL carry. I've not been to any of the parks, so I don't know if they have any signs.

I'm not a lawyer, but you are aware that you can carry in City Parks (unless they are a critical infrastructure, or otherwise prohibited area etc etc etc)

I just read those (passed in 2008) on the PDF, and don't see anything which would appear to try to prevent a CHL from carrying in their city parks. Any 30.06 signs on city park property would be invalid anyway.

City of Horseshoe Bay, near Marble Falls had similar ordinances at one time, but amended or fixed them.
http://www.horseshoe-bay-tx.gov/website ... REARMS.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 8 Carrying of Firearms
(a) It shall be unlawful for a person to carry a firearm at a:
(1) public park
(b) It shall be an exception to subsection (a) above if the person is licensed to carry a
concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

Just looks like the big town City Council needs to get with the City Attorney of Dripping Springs needs to update ...

Local Government Code LGC
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LGC 229.001

So, that ordinance, to be compliant with the LGC, must be regulating the carrying of firearms by non-licensees ("other than"). Cities can do that, they just didn't incorporate the exception like Horseshoe Bay did. They should fix that.

I E-mailed the City Council/City Attorney, with appropriate info in order for them to fix it by amending with the applicable exception should they desire to fix it properly, otherwise, it just doesn't apply to CHLs since they have no authority to adopt regulations regulating them under the LGC.

To: City Attorney and City Council

City of Dripping Springs
P.O. Box 384
Dripping Springs, Texas 78620


RE: City Ordinance issue

It appears that a city Ordinance needs to be amended.
http://www.cityofdrippingsprings.com/do ... 510.04.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


4.09 Weapons and Firearms
A. Patrons shall not carry or possess weapons while in park facilities.
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City of Horseshoe Bay, near Marble Falls had similar ordinances at one time, but amended or fixed them.
http://www.horseshoe-bay-tx.gov/website ... REARMS.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sec. 8 Carrying of Firearms
(a) It shall be unlawful for a person to carry a firearm at a:
(1) public park
(b) It shall be an exception to subsection (a) above if the person is licensed to carry a
concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

Just looks like the City Council needs to get with the City Attorney of Dripping Springs and needs to update/amend with an exception similar to what Horseshoe Bay did. ...

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Local Government Code LGC
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LGC 229.001

229.001. FIREARMS; EXPLOSIVES. (a) A municipality may
not adopt regulations relating to the transfer, private ownership,
keeping, transportation, licensing, or registration of firearms,
ammunition, or firearm supplies.
(b) Subsection (a) does not affect the authority a
municipality has under another law to:
(1) require residents or public employees to be armed
for personal or national defense, law enforcement, or another
lawful purpose;
(2) regulate the discharge of firearms within the
limits of the municipality;
(3) regulate the use of property, the location of a
business, or uses at a business under the municipality's fire code,
zoning ordinance, or land-use regulations as long as the code,
ordinance, or regulations are not used to circumvent the intent of
Subsection (a) or Subdivision (5) of this subsection;
(4) regulate the use of firearms in the case of an
insurrection, riot, or natural disaster if the municipality finds
the regulations necessary to protect public health and safety;
(5) regulate the storage or transportation of
explosives to protect public health and safety, except that 25
pounds or less of black powder for each private residence and 50
pounds or less of black powder for each retail dealer are not
subject to regulation; or
(6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person
other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under
Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:
(A) public park;
(B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or
other governmental body;
(C) political rally, parade, or official
political meeting; or
(D) nonfirearms-related school, college, or
professional athletic event.
(c) The exception provided by Subsection (b)(6) does not
apply if the firearm is in or is carried to or from an area
designated for use in a lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting
event and the firearm is of the type commonly used in the activity.

So, that ordinance, to be compliant with the LGC, must be regulating the carrying of firearms by non-licensees ("other than"). Cities can do that, they just didn't incorporate the exception like Horseshoe Bay did. They should fix that.

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EDITED to add City's reply:

have forwarded your email as requested to the City Attorney and City Council.


Thank you,
Jo Ann Touchstone
City Secretary

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(Whether they amend and fix their omission excepting CHLs or not, they have now been put on notice that their ordinance is unenforceable against CHLs.... in case some Park Ranger tries to enforce it against one)

[RPB]

P.S. Just come to Marble Falls parks, it isn't that far lol
http://www.ci.marble-falls.tx.us/parks_recreation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rules http://www.ci.marble-falls.tx.us/parks_rec_ord.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Newest is Westside Park

[ScottDLS]

I noticed this in the Park ordinances for Dripping Springs (http://www.cityofdrippingsprings.com/in ... ource/park" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;):

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.09 Weapons and Firearams

A. Patrons shall not carry or possess weapons while in park facilities.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I believe all the parks listed on the above URL are city property and therefore cannot prohibit CHL carry. I've not been to any of the parks, so I don't know if they have any signs.

I'm not a lawyer, but you are aware that you can carry in City Parks (unless they are a critical infrastructure, or otherwise prohibited area etc etc etc)
....

A city park is not a "Critical Infrastructure Facility"...and if you had permission to enter such a facility at all, you have the same Defense to Prosecution under 30.05 Criminal Trespass as any other place if you are carrying with your CHL.

That aside, I agree w/ RPB, et al. that by state law this ordinance is not applicable to carry under CHL, even though they didn't carve it out explicitly like other cities have.

Side note: It appears that generally, the highest level criminal ordinance that a city can enact on their own (without an existing state criminal statute) is a class C misdemeanor. Essentially the same as a traffic ticket...and no jail time. Not that I intend to go around collecting class C misdemeanor convictions... and this particular ordinance is still invalid against CHL.

[RPB]

Yeah, I should have worded that better.

I didn't really mean that a park itself would be a critical infrastructure facility.

Since I kayak/launch at parks etc, what I was thinking at the time was more about some odd central Texas situations whereby people are no longer allowed near SOME dams/most any city water intake facilities etc., even if we launch a kayak at the park ;

I just tend to qualify my generic "city parks are ok" around here because some city parks near me are on USACOE property, even though they are city parks. (Example= some in Georgetown)

Also because I qualify my "LCRA Parks and property are OK", due to the power plants and restricted areas of power plant dams and cooling areas by some lakeside power plants (on Lake LBJ) and flood control dams which used to be great fishing ... before the fences and buoys went up.

So, it isn't a city forbidding carry, as they can't, but either the USACOE, or State Law in those areas forbidding it anyway.

[ScottDLS]

So, it isn't a city forbidding carry, as they can't, but either the USACOE, or State Law in those areas forbidding it anyway.

One quick point about "critical infrastructure facilities"...it's not the carry that is prohibited, it's the entry whether you're carrying or not. If you have permission to enter, then you can carry too, unless they are private AND posted 30.06.

US Army COE property is a federal issue and not related to Texas law.