Confidentiality Question

[saguaro]

Hey guys. First post here, but I have done lots of reading! I have a somewhat unique reason to pursue a CHL, and took the training and exams this last weekend. I have all the paperwork complete, but still have one privacy concern. First, some brief background:

My wife has had a stalker issue for over 4 years now. It first occurred when we lived out of state. We got an injunction against harassment placed on him in 2006, which prohibited further contacts for a 12-month period (unfortunately is near impossible to make them permanent). We moved to Texas a couple months later and thought we were in the clear. Over the last few years, he has sporadically posted a defamatory online blog about my wife and tried to get injunctions against us. He has looked up all of our personal information online, and has sent dozens of letters over the years to our family and extended family, employers, former pastor, and even my dad's employer. He is a true nutcase; really bizarre stuff. He has threatened to sue us for years, and just sued my wife this summer. It was quickly dismissed by the court a couple weeks ago, but I am wondering what he will do when he thinks he has no further options. We are on code orange around our house these days. Unfortunately the antistalking laws are not great in Texas, and there really hasn't been too much help from the police or the law up until now. He pretty much needs to physically show up in Texas before the police will even bother taking a report.

As a precaution, we bought our house earlier this year under a trust's name instead of our real names so that we can stay out of the online tax records. The trust also is the official payer of all the utilities, and we never mail anything to our physical address. We aren't on facebook or myspace either. Our workplaces can be found, but we want to keep the location of our home a secret. It is tough to hide though with the advent of internet searches.

Our driver's licenses still have our previous address on them - which I would like to keep that way if I can. I know that the CHL data is private, however, I have less faith that the addresses on our driver's licenses are. According to the CHL rules, I would need to update my DL within 30 days to show our new physical address. So even though the CHL is private, getting it could jeopardize our anonymity and possibly our safety by having to update my driver's license info. Seems pretty ironic to me. Am I off base here?

Thanks for your help.

[ScottDLS]

Hey guys. First post here, but I have done lots of reading! I have a somewhat unique reason to pursue a CHL, and took the training and exams this last weekend. I have all the paperwork complete, but still have one privacy concern. First, some brief background:

My wife has had a stalker issue for over 4 years now. It first occurred when we lived out of state. We got an injunction against harassment placed on him in 2006, which prohibited further contacts for a 12-month period (unfortunately is near impossible to make them permanent). We moved to Texas a couple months later and thought we were in the clear. Over the last few years, he has sporadically posted a defamatory online blog about my wife and tried to get injunctions against us. He has looked up all of our personal information online, and has sent dozens of letters over the years to our family and extended family, employers, former pastor, and even my dad's employer. He is a true nutcase; really bizarre stuff. He has threatened to sue us for years, and just sued my wife this summer. It was quickly dismissed by the court a couple weeks ago, but I am wondering what he will do when he thinks he has no further options. We are on code orange around our house these days. Unfortunately the antistalking laws are not great in Texas, and there really hasn't been too much help from the police or the law up until now. He pretty much needs to physically show up in Texas before the police will even bother taking a report.

As a precaution, we bought our house earlier this year under a trust's name instead of our real names so that we can stay out of the online tax records. The trust also is the official payer of all the utilities, and we never mail anything to our physical address. We aren't on facebook or myspace either. Our workplaces can be found, but we want to keep the location of our home a secret. It is tough to hide though with the advent of internet searches.

Our driver's licenses still have our previous address on them - which I would like to keep that way if I can. I know that the CHL data is private, however, I have less faith that the addresses on our driver's licenses are. According to the CHL rules, I would need to update my DL within 30 days to show our new physical address. So even though the CHL is private, getting it could jeopardize our anonymity and possibly our safety by having to update my driver's license info. Seems pretty ironic to me. Am I off base here?

Thanks for your help.

You are right to try to keep your DL address private, although it is pretty difficult. I think the CHL information is going to be very difficult for a private individual to get a hold of. Unfortunately DL, not so much. I believe there is a procedure in Texas to have your DL address as your place of business or even an attorney's address. You have to sign an agreement to receive "service of legal process" at this address and I think Texas still has your physical address stored somewhere. I believe public figures and professional athletes have done this, as well as certain state and federal law enforcement personnel.

Another sad fact is that to register to vote, you have to provide your physical address. One potential mechanism might be to register at the address of a private mail service, or a friend in the same precinct as you live (if there is one). I don't think you could get in trouble for voter fraud as you're really only trying to be able to vote your precinct without giving away your address. You may have to keep re-registering if the government tries to "clean up" the voter rolls of bad addresses.

Hopefully some other folks have some ideas for you.

-Scott

[skub]

It seems to me that you are choosing between two options for protecting yourself...

1. Attempting to remain hidden so that this person can't find you.
2. Arm yourself so that, if things get dicey, and you are left with no other option, you can defend yourself agains this person.

You have to decide for yourself which strategy you will choose, but the following considerations come to my mind -

a. Are you convinced that, even if you keep your current address off of your DL, this guy won't be able to find you. If you pass on a CHL so that you can keep your address off your DL, and he finds you anyway, then you have limited your options in defending yourself if there is an altercation.

b. Keeping your home address secret only protects you at home, assuming he doesn't find out your address through some other means. What about when you are out and about - at work, with family, at church, etc. Which option will best protect you in all these situations.

c. By choosing not to update your DL with your current address, you are currently in violation of the law, and if that comes out in a traffic stop, or some other type situation, you could be forced to update your DL anyway.



So, to me the question seems to be - Do you believe that keeping your address off your DL will afford you more protection than having your CHL?

Hope this helps you in your decision.

(While I was typing this, ScottDLS posted his thoughts - if his suggestions about dealing with the DL issue pan out, you might not have to choose)

[saguaro]

Thanks for the responses, those are real helpful!

I will look into what options there are for what you put down as your address on your DL. Hopefully I can find someone in the big DPS beauracracy with some knowledge. I know they won't allow a PO Box, which is what I would use ideally. I will update this thread when I learn more.

Yep, I have already paid for a CHL course and can't see myself not being armed going forward. If someone wants to find you, they will, regardless of the efforts you make. I would just like to limit our internet trail, at least then anyone wanting to find you would actually have to be in your physical vicinity. It's crazy how much you can find out about someone a thousand miles away just by having some time to kill and a computer.

[bdickens]

Man, you are in a real bind. I hope there is a viable solution.

[dicion]

I agree with the above, but I do not necessarily agree with your comment about Texas' Stalker laws not being as good as other places.

I disagree, as Chapter 9 is FULL of solutions to stalkers.

If this guy shows up on your property at night, criminal mischief at night is a justification for deadly force, as well as many other things. (Robbery, Rape, Arson, Suicide, etc)

Sure, there may not be much in preventing him from showing up, but once he does, there's plenty of justification under Texas law to prevent him from ever showing up ever again if he's stupid enough to try and break down a door, or break a window and try to get in. Not many states have as many justifications for deadly force as Texas does.

Note: I'm not advocating trying to find a reason for shooting this guy, but it sounds like nothing else has stopped him thus far. If he's willing to take it to the extreme to get to your family, Texas' laws allow you to take it to the extreme to stop him.

Also, you don't need any sort of licence, permit, or registration to purchase, and keep, a small armory in your home. I highly recommend you do so, if you have not already.

[saguaro]

Well it looks like it is against federal law for states to allow individual's access to driver's license records. http://epic.org/privacy/drivers/ That makes me feel a little better for my situation. Funny how that law came about due to stalking cases that turned violent.

I have never been able to find myself online using my old address (where we rented) that is currently on my DL, but I figured the move would be another layer of protection. I am still supposed to update DPS though, just haven't yet. I am certainly beyond their 30-day period.

Here's another case of why we shouldn't have to use our real address on our DL - What if someone were to get there wallet stolen, the thief finds a good amount of money in it, and then thinks, "Hey, if his wallet is this good, maybe I should go check out the address on his DL too!"

[flb_78]

Is there anyway to use a PO Box as DL address while your read address could be on the CHL?

[wally775]

I think there may be a way for the DL.
The issue would be with your CHL.

If stopped, you would need to present both and one would have
a different address.
That, most likely would be an issue.

This is an interesting question and I hope you can find a answer.
Please keep us posted.

Good luck.

Afterthought.
Do you happen to own your own business?

[Kythas]

I couldn't imagine being in your situation.

Regarding your address, you mentioned that you can't keep your work info secret from this guy. He could always stake out your workplace and follow you home, making your not having the address on your DL moot.

If it were me, I'd be more comfortable complying with the law and having my correct address on my DL and CHL. After all, if you get busted with them different, and get your CHL suspended or revoked, you're then less protected than if you had the correct address and the guy shows up.

I hope you have some big dogs at home, too. I'd recommend a Great Pyreneese. They are large dogs, were bred to guard livestock (you will become their livestock), have a great temperament in the house, a very impressive bark, and possess an amazing ability to distinguish friend from foe. They have been known to give their lives defending their families, but are also the most gentle, lovable lap dogs you'll ever see.

Just my $0.02.

Good luck to you both.

[Dave2]

I hope you have some big dogs at home, too.

Get at least two* large guard dogs if you don't have them already. 100 lbs, minimum, in case this guy decides that their barks are bluffs. I'm not familiar enough with the different breeds to give specific advice. Do your homework first, be honest with yourself about how much effort you'll put into training & exercise, and you should be ok.

*Check with your local ordinances. For instance, in Carrollton, it's illegal to have more than two dogs. (Or so my friends tell me. I have not followed my own advice and looked it up, though.)

[Kythas]

I hope you have some big dogs at home, too.

Get at least two* large guard dogs if you don't have them already. 100 lbs, minimum, in case this guy decides that their barks are bluffs. I'm not familiar enough with the different breeds to give specific advice. Do your homework first, be honest with yourself about how much effort you'll put into training & exercise, and you should be ok.

*Check with your local ordinances. For instance, in Carrollton, it's illegal to have more than two dogs. (Or so my friends tell me. I have not followed my own advice and looked it up, though.)

From http://www.cityofcarrollton.com/index.aspx?page=137

Pet Limit

The City of Carrollton has a pet limit of 2 cats OR 2 dogs on any premises within the City that has no enclosed backyard fencing. No more than 3 dogs and 3 cats may be kept in a rear yard providing an enclosure such as a fence.

[C-dub]

The limit on the number of cats based on fence or no fence is funny.

My inlaws live in Farmers Branch and they tell me they're not even required to register their animals with the city and there isn't a limit. They probably have at least a dozen different animals. (dogs, cats, birds, reptiles)

[ChattyKat]

I'd recommend a Great Pyreneese. They are large dogs, were bred to guard livestock (you will become their livestock), have a great temperament in the house, a very impressive bark, and possess an amazing ability to distinguish friend from foe. They have been known to give their lives defending their families, but are also the most gentle, lovable lap dogs you'll ever see.

ABSOLUTELY !!! From personal experience, everything Kythas said about the livestock guardian dog breeds is right on. They are amazing, magnificent dogs. But if you get one or two, learn about them so that you can properly train yours and will understand how they are different from watch dogs or pet dogs.
-Kat

[lrb111]

I've also heard that one cannot have a P.O. Box as an address on a DL. But it's not necessarily true.
I had a DL with my P.O.box as the address for one cycle (5 years). Here's the caveat... I had a job traveling, and no physical home address.
I traveled away from my home town so much (7 to 9 weeks) that it simply wasn't cost effective to even have an apartment. When I got in my home area I would simply stay at a local hotel.

Having said all of that, I do not know how to make it work for you. Also, LEOs can get CHLs with aliases on them. Maybe a sit down with your local DA, or Sheriff would be in order for ideas or avenues we are not aware of.

If you do, bear in mind that local LEO have had Supreme Court rulings saying they have "no duty to protect". So, If LEO is saying they will protect you they are blowing you off.