Argument against open carry

[AJ80]

My concern is that with open carry, a lot of family restaurants, shopping malls and other businesses will put up signs prohibiting all firearms.

What good is open carry or concealed carry if you can’t go in most places armed, and have to leave it in the car? A lot of mothers and some fathers would not want a person sitting at the next table with a gun on his belt.

It could also turn a lot of voters against open or concealed carry. Remember lawmakers are going to do what the voters want. We have come a long way in even having concealed carry. Let’s not blow it now.

Out of sight, out of mind.

Do you have specific examples of this happening in other states?(Note that I am genuinely asking not making light of your concern)

I know that there was some fuss over open carry in California, but I haven't heard of any legislation in response.

Do the states which allow open carry have a larger ratio of signs than those that don't allow open carry?(Again, I have not researched this, but logically, I would assume yes, since as you said, out of sight, out of mind)
One solution though, may be to just do away with any 30.06 type law, so that entering a business with a no gun sign while open carrying a firearm is not illegal, but refusing to leave when they ask would be illegal.

Also, from what I've read on other forums, most people are oblivious to the presence of a gun holstered on a hip anyway.

I'm sure someone who has researched this more will chime in and explain exactly how open carry is affecting other states, of course I'd be most interested in watching Arizona and how it will be affected in the years to come.

Personally, my opinion still hasn't changed, but I do see your points.

[blue]

Constitutional Carry in Arizona is working just fine.

Constitutional Carry = OC or CC - OK if you are legal lawbiding citizen. NO LICENSE REQUIRED!
= CC license is available for those who want for use it in OTHER States.


When Texas goes to Constitutional Carry the Public will get use to it RAPIDLY!,
Just as they have in the States that already have it.
And it will work just fine for us as it does in AZ.

Regards,
Blue

[DONT TREAD ON ME]

I agree with the author's reasons for not wanting to OC.

However, I would like to have OC legal as there are times that OCing would be much more desirable than CC. Like when it is extremely hot out or you are hiking and do not want that extra conceal garment on.

I just want to have the ability to choose how I carry for each situation.

[VoiceofReason]

My concern is that with open carry, a lot of family restaurants, shopping malls and other businesses will put up signs prohibiting all firearms.

What good is open carry or concealed carry if you can’t go in most places armed, and have to leave it in the car? A lot of mothers and some fathers would not want a person sitting at the next table with a gun on his belt.

It could also turn a lot of voters against open or concealed carry. Remember lawmakers are going to do what the voters want. We have come a long way in even having concealed carry. Let’s not blow it now.

Out of sight, out of mind.

Do you have specific examples of this happening in other states?(Note that I am genuinely asking not making light of your concern)

I know that there was some fuss over open carry in California, but I haven't heard of any legislation in response.

Do the states which allow open carry have a larger ratio of signs than those that don't allow open carry?(Again, I have not researched this, but logically, I would assume yes, since as you said, out of sight, out of mind)
One solution though, may be to just do away with any 30.06 type law, so that entering a business with a no gun sign while open carrying a firearm is not illegal, but refusing to leave when they ask would be illegal.

Also, from what I've read on other forums, most people are oblivious to the presence of a gun holstered on a hip anyway.

I'm sure someone who has researched this more will chime in and explain exactly how open carry is affecting other states, of course I'd be most interested in watching Arizona and how it will be affected in the years to come.

Personally, my opinion still hasn't changed, but I do see your points.

Good questions. Ones that I believe can’t be answered at this time because OC is so recent there is no data available. I would like to see some research on this done after OC is legal for a year. We also do not have any data that I know of that shows how many people actually carry openly in the OC states.

“One solution though, may be to just do away with any 30.06 type law, so that entering a business with a no gun sign while open carrying a firearm is not illegal, but refusing to leave when they ask would be illegal.”

I submit that this would be analogues to passing a law prohibiting a person from putting up a “no trespassing” or “no hunting” sign on his property so that entering or hunting on the property is not illegal, but refusing to leave when they ask would be illegal.

I am not mocking your statement, just trying to draw an analogy. My concern is that enough “anti-gunners” would complain to the managers of family restaurants etc. that they would put up a sign. Remember we are still a small minority.

I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree until we see how it works out.

[AJ80]

My concern is that with open carry, a lot of family restaurants, shopping malls and other businesses will put up signs prohibiting all firearms.

What good is open carry or concealed carry if you can’t go in most places armed, and have to leave it in the car? A lot of mothers and some fathers would not want a person sitting at the next table with a gun on his belt.

It could also turn a lot of voters against open or concealed carry. Remember lawmakers are going to do what the voters want. We have come a long way in even having concealed carry. Let’s not blow it now.

Out of sight, out of mind.

Do you have specific examples of this happening in other states?(Note that I am genuinely asking not making light of your concern)

I know that there was some fuss over open carry in California, but I haven't heard of any legislation in response.

Do the states which allow open carry have a larger ratio of signs than those that don't allow open carry?(Again, I have not researched this, but logically, I would assume yes, since as you said, out of sight, out of mind)
One solution though, may be to just do away with any 30.06 type law, so that entering a business with a no gun sign while open carrying a firearm is not illegal, but refusing to leave when they ask would be illegal.

Also, from what I've read on other forums, most people are oblivious to the presence of a gun holstered on a hip anyway.

I'm sure someone who has researched this more will chime in and explain exactly how open carry is affecting other states, of course I'd be most interested in watching Arizona and how it will be affected in the years to come.

Personally, my opinion still hasn't changed, but I do see your points.

Good questions. Ones that I believe can’t be answered at this time because OC is so recent there is no data available. I would like to see some research on this done after OC is legal for a year. We also do not have any data that I know of that shows how many people actually carry openly in the OC states.

“One solution though, may be to just do away with any 30.06 type law, so that entering a business with a no gun sign while open carrying a firearm is not illegal, but refusing to leave when they ask would be illegal.”

I submit that this would be analogues to passing a law prohibiting a person from putting up a “no trespassing” or “no hunting” sign on his property so that entering or hunting on the property is not illegal, but refusing to leave when they ask would be illegal.

I am not mocking your statement, just trying to draw an analogy. My concern is that enough “anti-gunners” would complain to the managers of family restaurants etc. that they would put up a sign. Remember we are still a small minority.

I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree until we see how it works out.

In my mind, "No Trespassing" and "No Hunting" are a bit different in that the first affects entry no matter what you are carrying, and the second affects killing and physically removing an animal from private property.
To me, "No Guns" is more analogous to a"No Outside Drinks" sign in a movie theater or a "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service" sign.

Edit: Just thought of a question: As the law stands now, if a business posted a "No Knives Allowed" sign and a person walked in with a 3" pocket knife clipped inside his/her pocket, what legal recourse would the business have. Call the cops and have the knife carrier arrested without confronting the knife carrier at all, or ask the knife carrier to leave, then call the cops if the knife carrier refuses to leave?

[dicion]

Edit: Just thought of a question: As the law stands now, if a business posted a "No Knives Allowed" sign and a person walked in with a 3" pocket knife clipped inside his/her pocket, what legal recourse would the business have. Call the cops and have the knife carrier arrested without confronting the knife carrier at all, or ask the knife carrier to leave, then call the cops if the knife carrier refuses to leave?

Pretty much. Technically it would probably fall under 30.05. Depending on the person who saw it, how they reported it, and the officers that responded to it, it could go anywhere.

However, In my opinion, Most likely, if someone made a "no knives" sign, and called the cops because someone had a pocket knife just showing in their pocket, they'd do one, or all of three things:

1: Laugh at the person making the call - "A Pocket knife? seriously? Is he waving it around? No? We've got more important things." *Click*
2: Same as number 1, but tell them that the business has to verbally request they leave, and to call them if there's any problems after that.
3: Begrudgingly Show up, be like "Didn't you see the sign?" "No, Officer" "Well, you cant have that here, leave." and only arrest you if you didn't.

30.05 says if a business asks you to leave, and you don't, then you're trespassing. 'Technically' the sign tells them that, however, in actual practice, you've pretty much got to tell the person, "Hey you, Leave", and have them refuse, before the police will arrest for Trespassing in a publicly accessible area. (Movie Theater, Mall, Arcade, Store, etc)

[MojoTexas]

I think open carry should be legal, simply because I don't think it should be the LAW that I have to conceal my firearm. The Second Amendment says I have the right to keep and bear arms...it says nothing about concealing them. Whether open carry is tactically a good idea or not, is an entirely different discussion.

I would probably open-carry in certain circumstances, such as outdoor activities like fishing and hunting or hiking. I would NOT open-carry on a daily basis in the suburbs or the city, for the "surprise" element that everyone references.

Arizona has had open-carry for many years. I used to travel to Phoenix regularly on business in the late 1990s and early 2000s and often saw "regular people" openly packing heat. It didn't cause a stir, and for every "openly carried" handgun I saw, there were probably hundreds of concealed handguns that I did NOT see. I think a lot of the objections to open carry, even from normally "pro-gun" people, are just FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt). I have yet to see anyone make a coherent argument based on facts and statistics from open carry states that demonstrate that open carry causes problems.

That being said...I think that Open Carry should NOT be the "top priority" for the next legislative session. We need to focus our energy on getting "campus carry" and "parking lot" laws passed. Those issues make a lot more sense to me and address a real need. The open carry would be the icing on the cake, in my opinion.

Just my opinion, of course...
MojoTexas