WTB: NORINCO 1911

[orionengnr]

I am no fan of RIAs, after having owned one three years ago.
That said, in all fairness, that type of AD can happen with any pre-Series 80 1911, which would include the Norinco.
That is why the FPS was designed....like it or not.

Most of my 1911s are series II Kimbers, which have an FPS. However, I will probably be buying some of those Wolf extra power firing pin springs (and maybe some titanium firing pins) for my FPS-less 1911s.

[McKnife]

Bump.

[dicion]

I like the price of the Rock Island, but I've heard rumors... something about weak springs making a dropped 1911 more likely to discharge than other models. I recall somewhere on my many forums when a dropped RIA 1911 caused a discharge into it's owners thigh.

I will admit that a 1911, without a firing pin safety, and a heavy firing pin or weak spring, or combination of both, could fire when dropped on the ground. This is simple physics.

However, this can ONLY happen if it dropped pretty much straight on the muzzle, due to the fact that it would be gravity and momentum from the fall, and then sudden stop, causing the pin to continue moving forward, against it's spring, and strike the primer. As such, the round would only fire straight into the ground below it.

There is absolutely no way for a dropped 1911 to shoot UPwards, and hit someone in the thigh. If a 1911 was dropped on the rear, the firing pin would be pulled AWAY from the round by momentum, not towards it. Similarly, if one was dropped on the side, the grip, or the top of the slide, the firing pin would have force applied pushing it against the side of it's chamber, not towards the round. Even if the 1911 was dropped directly on it's hammer, and it managed to break the sear holding it cocked, it should catch at half-cock, preventing the hammer from falling on the firing pin.

Theoretically, if you 'punched' a hard surface with the muzzle of a 1911 hard enough, then using the same physics above, it is possible for it to discharge there as well. Just substitute the force and momentum generated by gravity in the 'dropped' situation with your forward momentum from your hand holding it. Either way, the muzzle has to meet the hard surface for a sudden stop to generate the force the firing pin needs to overcome it's spring, in the correct direction, to fire.

Just wanted to throw in my 2c on the oft-discussed 1911 drop-discharge topic, and the myths that surround it.
Some day, when I have a spare, junky 1911 that I can destroy, I'll make a video demonstrating all this by removing the firing pin completely, and dropping it in various ways, and throwing it at objects with just a primered casing inside.

Good luck on your search! I hope you find the model you're looking for!

[The Annoyed Man]

http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... IA+dropped

Regarding dropping an RIA versus any other brand:

The dropped pistol was a 1911A1. Any 1911 pistol that is the A1 version - and that includes ALL GI replicas or real GI collectibles - is going to face that issue, regardless of manufacturer. It is a known "weakness" in the design, going all the way back to the original. And I say this as a lover of 1911s who owns a 1943 vintage Ithaca 1911A1 and a modern Kimber and a modern Springfield.

All of the 5 1911s in our safe are dead-nuts reliable. We wouldn't keep them if they weren't. The one I used to have (it was a Sig GSR) that wasn't reliable, I got rid of. This collection includes 3 pistols that are in the A1 configuration: that old Ithaca, a Taurus PT1911, and a Springfield Loaded.

I don't carry the Ithaca, because it is a memento of my father's WW2 service. The Taurus and one of the Kimbers are my sons, and I don't carry them. But I regularly carry the other Kimber and the Springfield, and they are both more reliable and more accurate than that old Ithaca. Why more reliable? Because the basic old GI design works best with hardball ammo, and the modern Springfield - also an A1 - seems to accommodate hollowpoints just fine.

With all due respect, I think you're obsessing, or "over-thinking" if you prefer, over the choice of a Norinco, and the "harder steel" angle is largely a myth. In the price range you want, the RIA pistols will more than suit your needs. The dropped pistol mentioned above discharged because it landed muzzle down and the firing pin inertia overcame the firing pin spring. This is a known issue for all 1911A1 pistols, regardless of manufacturer, but there are a couple of different easy and inexpensive fixes - three if you count "don't drop the pistol." The other two fixes are either a stronger firing pin spring, or a lightened (titanium) firing pin - or a combination thereof. My Springfield Loaded has a titanium firing pin. It came from the factory that way.

In any case, the above dropped pistol is the only personal account I've ever seen of someone actually having such a discharge, let alone having one and being injured by it. In the meantime, there are plenty of "Glock Kaboom" stories (not to pick on Glocks, but merely to illustrate the point), and Kahr Arms malfunction stories, etc., etc., to prove the point that if you try hard enough, you'll find someone, somewhere, who will denigrate a particular brand or design as junk. Some are junk. But if you're not already a 1911 owner, and you are basing your opinion about brand on "what you heard," then you are short-changing yourself.

And think about this: The reason that so many 1911 makers offer their pistols with upgrades from the basic 1911 design - A1 or not - upgrades such as beavertail grip safeties, extended thumb safeties, extended slide stop levers, upgraded sights (you'll be really unhappy with the basic GI sights on a 1911; they totally suck), "commander" style hammers, upgraded triggers, etc., etc., is that they make the pistol BETTER, not less reliable. You shoot enough rounds with a standard GI model, and you'll wish for that beavertail grip safety and a commander style hammer. The money you save on bandaids would buy those parts.

If you want the best of both worlds, that is to say GI reliability, with upgraded features like those above, and for under $500, go find yourself a RIA Tactical model and quit worrying about Internet commando myths about the hardness of the steel.

Just my 2¢.

[Dave2]

However, this can ONLY happen if it dropped pretty much straight on the muzzle, due to the fact that it would be gravity and momentum from the fall, and then sudden stop, causing the pin to continue moving forward, against it's spring, and strike the primer. As such, the round would only fire straight into the ground below it.

There is absolutely no way for a dropped 1911 to shoot UPwards, and hit someone in the thigh.

The round could ricochet. I'm not saying it's likely, just that it could happen.

[dicion]

However, this can ONLY happen if it dropped pretty much straight on the muzzle, due to the fact that it would be gravity and momentum from the fall, and then sudden stop, causing the pin to continue moving forward, against it's spring, and strike the primer. As such, the round would only fire straight into the ground below it.

There is absolutely no way for a dropped 1911 to shoot UPwards, and hit someone in the thigh.

The round could ricochet. I'm not saying it's likely, just that it could happen.

Okay... sure, I guess that's a distinct possibility.. but its still not 'shooting upwards'

[McKnife]

Bump. Let me know if you have a Norinco available for sale. Thanks!

[cajunautoxer]

There's one listed on TGT

[ml1209]

There's one listed on TGT

Yeah but it's been heavily messed with - stainless thumb safety and slide stop on a blued gun?

[zigzag]

Norinco 1911 were unheard of when they were imported and pretty much malign and unerrated by many. Once the ban sets in the myth surged . Funny it is ! Everyone wants to have one . Its all the hardiness hype etc. If you want the best so far and for value to stay, save and get a Colt XSE. You wont regret it.

[McKnife]

Bump.

[rm9792]

saw one at pasadena show today and it was going for 475, just fyi to give a ballpark

[orionengnr]

If you want the best so far and for value to stay, save and get a Colt XSE. You wont regret it.

Well, there is a perfect example of the difference between "fact" and "opinion".

Pretty sure you can discern the difference.

[xring]

I know someone who has one. Check your private messages.

xring