FAQ: Can private entity ban CHL on gov't property?

[ELB]

"Government" in this case is referring, of course, to Texas state, county, and city/town property, not Federal.


Are we actually still in violation of 30.06 at gun shows?
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 50#p488150" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

American Airlines Center (yes, again)
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... 42&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Carry in Parking Lot (City Owned Property)
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37833" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hobby Center?
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... rent+lease" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gun Show CHL Question
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... se#p155694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

American Airlines Center in Dallas. Posted??
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... er#p434130" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Toyota Center Concealed Handgun Policy
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... er#p428541" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Superpages.com center
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... er#p415573" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stars games , are they posted??
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... nes+Center" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

American Airlines Arena
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... er#p339860" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Carry at Govt Owned Venue
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... er#p299264" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Private groups banning weapons on public turf
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... er#p187224" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Carry at the American Airlines Center?
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... er#p143981" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

American Airlines Center -Parking
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... er#p143149" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Promise Keepers-Dallas
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... nes+Center" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BAD EXPERIENCE: Dallas Museum of Art
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... nes+Center" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What I learned at Instructor renewal (and what I remembered)
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php? ... nes+Center" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[jester]

The situation is no different than discrimination in hiring. It's not legal but some do it anyway.

[Teamless]

The short answer is: Yes they can.

what is your basis for this answer?

Charles quoted the statute in the "city owned thread" as

Charles L. Cotton wrote: (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035. Note, the focus is on who owns the property, not who is in control. Leasing the property to a primate person or entity does not change its ownership; it remains "property . . . owned . . . by a governmental agency."

So he is saying that they (legally) cannot do this, but they still do it anyway.

[ELB]

The short answer is: Yes they can.

what is your basis for this answer?

See the small para I wrote below "Yes they can." Or read the threads on the American Airlines Center in Dallas.

So he is saying that they (legally) cannot do this, but they still do it anyway.

Ah! So you do understand!

[ScottDLS]

The short answer is: Yes they can.

what is your basis for this answer?

Charles quoted the statute in the "city owned thread" as

Charles L. Cotton wrote: (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035. Note, the focus is on who owns the property, not who is in control. Leasing the property to a primate person or entity does not change its ownership; it remains "property . . . owned . . . by a governmental agency."

So he is saying that they (legally) cannot do this, but they still do it anyway.

Or to be more accurate, they cannot convict you of a crime for passing the sign, but they may be able to physically prevent you from entering.

[Teamless]

on the American Airlines Center in Dallas

During a professional sporting event or during all activities or is all they do professional sporting events?
If during pro sporting events those are listed separately as not being able to carry under CHL Laws.

Again, can they "legally" do it, or are you just saying "they can do it"

[Teamless]

they cannot convict you of a crime for passing the sign

If they cannot convict me, then it is not illegal

[A-R]

they cannot convict you of a crime for passing the sign

If they cannot convict me, then it is not illegal

So I guess it wasn't illegal for OJ to murder his wife and that other guy?

[Teamless]

not quite Austinrealtor, Murder is illegal.
Not being convicted, is different than being illegal.

But I do agree OJ Did it!

[ELB]

Everybody -- go read the threads.

[Teamless]

ELB, I have read them. But most all of them, other than the true statute quotes, are conjecture and speculation.

[ELB]

ELB, I have read them. But most all of them, other than the true statute quotes, are conjecture and speculation.

Sigh. Most, not all.

My last pronouncement:

The law seems to make it clear that CHL carry cannot legally be forbidden on Texas government property, even if it is rented or leased to a private entity. Look for Mr. Cotton's posts on this issue in particular in the threads.

Certain private entities do it anyway. See numerous posts on the American Airlines Center and gunshows that rent government facilities. There are examples cited of local police officers being hired for security at these venues.

There seems to be no legal penalty for for these seeming transgressions against CHL carry. No one individual wants to go through a possible arrest just so he can be found not guilty and then sue the entities (and possibly the peace officers) involved. See numerous posts on "I don't want to be the test case." No organization seems to want to deal with this either.

Therefore, the defacto law in Texas is that private entities leasing or renting Texas government property may ban CHL carry.

[tomc]

This is the way I understand it. No, they cannot prevent someone with a CHL from carrying on such property that is owned by a government entity and leased by a private company under Texas CHL laws. However, most places referred to in the OP reflect places where one must go through some kind of security screening before entering. If you are found to have a concealed firearm on your person, they cannot exclude you under PC 30.06, but they can exclude you under ordinary Texas trespass laws the same as they can exclude someone who tries to bring in a camera, recorder, or a cooler with drinks. If I'm wrong, someone please correct me.

[ELB]

Again, read through the threads and you will see this is not the case. They explicitly ban CHL carry, and maintain they can do it because being a private entity they set their own rules, regardless of it being government property. People have called, written, and emailed places like AAC, and they maintain it is their right regardless of the law.

Also, under the trespass law PC 30.05, it is a defense to prosecution that the basis for which someone is alleged to have trespassed is that they were a CHL holder with a concealed handgun. This is a slightly roundabout way to say you can't claim trespassing solely on the basis that someone is legally carrying concealed.