Nearly used my weapon tonight.

[xdfanatic]

Good evening everyone. Just wanted to say thanks again for everyone's insight on this forum, I have enjoyed lurking for a while now. I just wanted to say that I had completely drawn my weapon at about the time the guy was about 6-7 feet away. The only reason I didn't fire is because I saw in his posture that he was stopping in his tracks so to speak. Much like a football move a running back might make to dodge a tackle, also note that I did notice his fast movements coming towards me before I realized he was holding the weapon which gave the needed time to assess. I was on full alert instantly and was already preparing to take action.

Looking back at the title I guess I should have worded it a little better but in my experience in the desert using your weapon meant actually firing. You guys are right though I definitely used my weapon and I am glad that I didn't have to fire it. As I continue to rerun the chain of events in my head I continue to ask myself what it was that made me look like an easy target? I can't help but wonder what the LEO would have said when he arrived on scene to find a dead suspect? Glad to avoid all the troubles involved with that no matter how justified I was. Thanks again everyone and in the words of my old sergeant "stay alert, stay alive!"

[esxmarkc]

I can only second most everything that has been said:

Thank you for sharing this story! You DID use your weapon to gain the upper hand and take control of a situation rapidly heading south in order to obtain the BEST possible outcome.. In the simplest of terms you met a predator head on and won the day.

I have no doubt that an accurately placed blow from a properly wielded tire iron could be quite lethal. If you, your girlfriend, your family or your friends ever harbored any reservations of your necessity to carry a concealed handgun they can now cast them aside. Thanks to the time spent in CHL class, the range or any time spent in preparation for this contingency, you will be able to join them for yet another Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc.. And that is indeed what this is all about. We are not here to learn how to play Batman, we are here to learn how to take control of our own destiny should the situation arise.

Thank God criminals are still stupid enough to bring a tire iron to a gunfight.

Mark C.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

Thank God criminals are still stupid enough to bring a tire iron to a gunfight.

I continue to ask myself what it was that made me look like an easy target?

Valid point.

However, outside of things that may become apparent pending personal introspection, you must also realize that some criminals are exceedingly stupid, and completely lack the targeting skills of more "successful" criminals.

There are plenty of criminals out there who failed to take into consideration the confident demeanor and over all apparent fitness of a would be "target"....and have promptly had their proverbial tail kicked in as a result.

[Dragonfighter]

Wow, excellent job. Thank God you're okay. As I sat here reading this thread I was musing about how so many times a situation is related and many things are dissected in retrospect. I for the life of me could not think of one thing that should have been done differently. This is an ideal.

[OldCurlyWolf]

Only one thing wrong. You let him get way too close with a weapon in his hand without firing. The second deputy was correct. Otherwise you did quite well and the outcome was very good.

OCW

[lowonair]

This is a good reason to carry a light. He might not have gotten as close if you blinded him with 200 lumens. Glad your okay.

[terryg]

Looking back at the title I guess I should have worded it a little better but in my experience in the desert using your weapon meant actually firing.

When I mentioned the title could easily be 'Used my weapon tonight' - I didn't mean that as a correction as if you did it wrong. I was just verbalizing something that all of us here know but that most anti-gun critics never acknowledge. That many many times, if not most of the time, firearms are successfully used to prevent crimes without ever being fired.

[Excaliber]

Only one thing wrong. You let him get way too close with a weapon in his hand without firing. The second deputy was correct. Otherwise you did quite well and the outcome was very good.

OCW

What's missing is consideration of the very short initial distance when the threat first became visible and the time needed to assess and react to a rapidly closing threat. Recognition of the threat was immediate as he came into view from the concealment of another vehicle. The threat was rapidly closing as the OP closed his car door and positioned himself to take action. He assessed the threat as a deadly one, drew from concealment (about 2 seconds right there), took action to protect his head from a blow because he knew a handgun round might well not stop the threat from hitting him with the tire iron, and correctly made an extremely fast and difficult shoot / no shoot decision based on an instinct level recognition of a change in the threat's intent and tactics.

I would be surprised if the entire incident described took more than 4 - 5 seconds start to finish (XDfanatic - please correct me if I'm wrong on this). Time was used very efficiently here. Someone with less experience and practice and without a mentally stored reaction sequence would have been severely challenged to be able to react as effectively in the time frame available.

I can't agree that the OP let the assailant get too close. This wasn't a situation where he allowed anything. He was faced with a rapidly closing threat that didn't respond to a verbal command and he made his shoot / no shoot decision as soon as shooting became possible - when he had drawn the gun and aligned with the target. He had justification to fire earlier as soon as he saw the advancing subject with a tire iron, but his gun was still in his holster at that point. It took time to bring it into action.

When all is said and done, results are the most important criteria for judging action. In this case a deadly attack in progress was skillfully and successfully thwarted with no injury to either party, and no loss to the victim. That's as good an outcome as possible.

The actions taken here were as close to perfect as these things ever get, and the results speak for themselves.

[Excaliber]

This is a good reason to carry a light. He might not have gotten as close if you blinded him with 200 lumens. Glad your okay.

In the type of encounter Xdfanatic described, use of a light to manage the threat would almost certainly have ended with a critically wounded or dead victim and a bad guy who got away with a wallet, a gun, and a really nifty flashlight.

I've seen stories where it worked on certain animals that have very sensitive night vision and were temporarily blinded and deterred when hit with a high intensity light, but I don't buy the theoretical hype that a bright light will stop an armed and charging bad guy in his tracks. I and many of my colleagues carried and used SureFire lights on duty. I've never seen this result happen in the real world, and I've never seen a credible account of such a successful use elsewhere.

In my book this tactic is listed under "not recommended."

[Seabear]

I agree with Excaliber "The actions taken here were as close to perfect as these things ever get, and the results speak for themselves."

I would like to point out couple of things that nobody has mentioned.

1.You did a great job using the word STOP. You stated what you needed and wanted him to do. We teach students to do this in CHL class...this is why.

2. You called the police even though you didn't fire. Very good. Most would jump in their car and drive off. The problem is if the suspect had called the cops on you, he would be considered the victim and you the suspect.

Excellent job, I hope that if any of us have a similar situation that we will act as you did and achieve the same results.

In addition, thank you for your military service.

[cubbyjg]

Great job and im glad to hear that you are okay.

[KD5NRH]

After running down the chain of events another sheriff who pulled up while we were talking tells me "it's too bad you didn't fire your weapon."

I wonder what he meant by that comment.

He meant it's a hack of a lot easier to find and apprehend a suspect who's still there and incapacitated.

xdfanatic: you might want to look at how hard it is to swing a weapon at someone who's backed into the V of an open car door. It limits the attacker to thrusts and short swings, and gives you some cover from the back as well. you might also want to practice drawing to and firing from a retention position at 5 yards and less; point shooting in an apartment complex isn't ideal, but he was close enough to easily hit your extended gun arm.

[xdfanatic]

Thank you Excalibur, your definitely right about the time line. The who incident lasted no longer than 4 seconds total but is ingrained in my head forever. From reading some of your other posts I believe that you may have also professionally been faced with similar shoot/no shoot decisions yourself. It is something that is hard to explain in words really and is hard to convey how that process works. I would bet that my verbal command took him by surprise and drawing my weapon is what made him realize that at that point he would be fighting for his life, something he was not prepared to do with a tire iron. I however was prepared to fight for my life using my handgun and anyone who has faced this matter really understands whether they fire or not. There are so many LEO that face this decision on a continuing basis and make the right call, which for them the decision comes without reward and I praise them for that. As we never hear of those encounters on the news, it's only the guys who make the "bad decisions."

Terryg I understood exactly what you were saying and was just clarifying, thanks for your insight. Frankly I am just glad the title didn't read "I was attacked with a tire iron and my wallet and vehicle were stolen."

As for the flashlight I honestly don't think it would have helped me in this situation, as Excalibur stated. I also don't think I would have ever reached the holster had I drawn a flashlight first. All that said I believe a good light works very well especially in a lot of HD (i.e. identifying friend or foe) situations.

Thanks again everyone, I am still a little shaken today but I am certainly glad I survived. I just hope the sheriffs have rounded these guys up and no one else has gotten hurt behind their madness.

[Excaliber]

Thank you Excalibur, your definitely right about the time line. The who incident lasted no longer than 4 seconds total but is ingrained in my head forever. From reading some of your other posts I believe that you may have also professionally been faced with similar shoot/no shoot decisions yourself. It is something that is hard to explain in words really and is hard to convey how that process works. I would bet that my verbal command took him by surprise and drawing my weapon is what made him realize that at that point he would be fighting for his life, something he was not prepared to do with a tire iron. I however was prepared to fight for my life using my handgun and anyone who has faced this matter really understands whether they fire or not. There are so many LEO that face this decision on a continuing basis and make the right call, which for them the decision comes without reward and I praise them for that. As we never hear of those encounters on the news, it's only the guys who make the "bad decisions."

Terryg I understood exactly what you were saying and was just clarifying, thanks for your insight. Frankly I am just glad the title didn't read "I was attacked with a tire iron and my wallet and vehicle were stolen."

As for the flashlight I honestly don't think it would have helped me in this situation, as Excalibur stated. I also don't think I would have ever reached the holster had I drawn a flashlight first. All that said I believe a good light works very well especially in a lot of HD (i.e. identifying friend or foe) situations.

Thanks again everyone, I am still a little shaken today but I am certainly glad I survived. I just hope the sheriffs have rounded these guys up and no one else has gotten hurt behind their madness.

Xdfanatic,

Yes, like any LEO (now retired), I have made more shoot / no shoot decisions than I could possibly count, and served as a post incident investigator for many more. That doesn't make me an ultimate authority, but it does give me some insight into the experience.

Your verbal command and body language should have been the BG's first clue that he was in trouble because people who aren't prepared to back it up rarely use this tactic, but he ignored it. He got the message when he saw the wrong end of your pistol aimed at things he wanted to keep unperforated with a guy who was very clearly willing and able to ruin his day behind it. His survival instincts and quick reactions served him well also and probably ended his victimization efforts for the evening, or at least until he could change underwear.

All in all, you achieved an ideal ending to what could easily have gone tragic had you not reacted as competently and quickly as you did.

[Fangs]

My guess is that you looked like an easy target because he was holding a tire iron and thought he could sneak up on you. Doesn't matter how physically fit you are if someone clocks you over the head from behind while you're distracted loading your truck.

How would this situation have gone had he hidden the weapon behind his leg and/or started asking for change or to borrow a cell phone? Don't get me wrong, I think you did everything perfectly, but would you have had enough time had he been a sly criminal?

I put my hand on my pocket carry gun every time someone comes in my direction with a sad story. I like to think I'm being preparanoid.