reasons why we shouldn't allow campus carry.

[aaangel]

We are winning in most of the poll.....but not much??? Ok guys let's hear the other side. As an advocate for conceal carry on campus, I am willing to hear and will try my best to respect the arguments of the other side.

but the number one i hear is: "BLOOD BATH" IN OUR CAMPUS. they keep using that term, in the history of conceal carry laws when and where did a "blood bath" happened?

[PRO]

Eons ago, it was a hot day at UT. I was wearing shorts, tee and sandals and put my wallet and everything else in my backpack. I set my backpack next to me during a test and somehow, someone stole it from under my nose. Had there been a weapon in it?????

[hirundo82]

but the number one for me is: "BLOOD BATH" IN OUR CAMPUS. they keep using that term, in the history of conceal carry laws when and where did a "blood bath" happen?

Gun control advocated have been predicting "blood in the streets" whenever there is a proposal to expand who can carry or where they can carry, ever since Florida first proposed shall-issue concealed carry permits as we know them in 1987.

It has never come to pass, but that does not keep it from being used. You'd think they would come up with a different argument, but it seems to be the best one they have.

[SlickTX]

Most arguments against campus carry have the following:

-- students are young, impulsive, hot headed, full of machismo/testosterone and shouldn't be trusted with a weapon, would let thier weapon be stolen, etc.

-- those with guns will try to be a hero and would likely shoot an unintended victim

-- the untrained will not even use their weapon because they will choke under stress

-- the risk of gun-toters on campus outweighs any personal defense arguments

The one question I'd like to ask these editorial writers, bloggers, etc. is "have you taken a CHL class"??? If they had been to a class they wouldn't have these erroneous preconceptions.

[aaangel]

what about this one from John Woods......

"If a gunman is on the loose, and people try to shoot back, missed shots can pose their own danger to bystanders. And the number of guns can make it difficult for police to determine "who are the good guys and who are the bad guys," Woods said.

i'm sure he also thinks that we all have our chl badges and our batman suit running TOWARDS the gunman!

[karl]

The most realistic counter argument I've heard is that college campuses are high stress areas. They say that students are constantly pushed to their limits before and after tests and if they receive a bad grade, the student may just want to go on a killing spree.

And of course why is it false? Yes campuses have a lot of stressed out students, but those who are licensed by the state to carry a concealed handgun are the ones that have their bodies in check. These individuals don't shoot people over traffic incidents and other high stress activities, and to be heard now and forever more when talking about campus carry, "what makes a university different than everywhere else?"

[PRO]

The most realistic counter argument I've heard is that college campuses are high stress areas. They say that students are constantly pushed to their limits before and after tests and if they receive a bad grade, the student may just want to go on a killing spree.

And of course why is it false? Yes campuses have a lot of stressed out students, but those who are licensed by the state to carry a concealed handgun are the ones that have their bodies in check. These individuals don't shoot people over traffic incidents and other high stress activities, and to be heard now and forever more when talking about campus carry, "what makes a university different than everywhere else?"

I'll look for the article. About a month ago, a CHL’er on Mopac here in Austin pulled his handgun and fired at another vehicle. He said the other driver’s road rage was a threat to his life. APD saw it differently and arrested him. So no, not all CHL’ers have their bodies in check.

Found it:

http://www.kvue.com/news/Bullets-fly-on ... 70804.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[aaangel]

APD saw it differently and arrested him. So no, not all CHL’ers have their bodies in check.

same way as not all politicians,priest,police and people have their bodies in check.....

[PRO]

APD saw it differently and arrested him. So no, not all CHL’ers have their bodies in check.

same way as not all politicians,priest,police and people are good!

IMO it comes down to pride, honor, wisdom and being able to separate our emotions from the moment.

[karder]

It seems that the anti-gun crowd believes that allowing CC on college campuses will create a large number of armed students. I tend to not think this would be the case. Personally, I don't know many college age kids who are licensed. I know they are out there as there are a few on this forum, but I don't think they make up a large percentage of the concealed carry crowd.
I presume the majority of the people who would take advantage of college campus carry would be the professors, instructors, and staff. Not really the young, immature, hotheads that the anti-gun folks fear.

[dicion]

It seems that the anti-gun crowd believes that allowing CC on college campuses will create a large number of armed students. I tend to not think this would be the case. Personally, I don't know many college age kids who are licensed. I know they are out there as there are a few on this forum, but I don't think they make up a large percentage of the concealed carry crowd.
I presume the majority of the people who would take advantage of college campus carry would be the professors, instructors, and staff. Not really the young, immature, hotheads that the anti-gun folks fear.

Well, first.. if they're under 21, they cannot take advantage of it, as they are not eligable for a CHL (Unless they are Current Military). That eliminates pretty much all Freshmen and Sophomores right away.
Secondly, they also need to take the 'long' 10 hour class, and a full background check. That will weed out the uncommitted ones and the ones with any sort of criminal history.

No, I do not see a huge spike in CHL's being applied for from college students if this passes.

What I DO see is existing CHL's, that currently leave it in their cars, instead carrying it on them.
Just like they do any/everywhere where else, and somehow manage not to randomly shoot every person they see

[karl]

What I DO see is existing CHL's, that currently leave it in their cars, instead carrying it on them.
Just like they do any/everywhere where else, and somehow manage not to randomly shoot every person they see

[74novaman]

It seems that the anti-gun crowd believes that allowing CC on college campuses will create a large number of armed students. I tend to not think this would be the case. Personally, I don't know many college age kids who are licensed. I know they are out there as there are a few on this forum, but I don't think they make up a large percentage of the concealed carry crowd.
I presume the majority of the people who would take advantage of college campus carry would be the professors, instructors, and staff. Not really the young, immature, hotheads that the anti-gun folks fear.

Bingo. I would have been able to carry my last year on campus as a senior, but before that I was under 21. And in my CHL class of 30+ people there was maybe one other my age. Theres just not that many CHL holders attending class daily. But they shouldn't have to forfeit their rights to do so.

[aaangel]

another one, and i have to qoute "with conceal carry on campus, teachers will be terrified to fail a CHL holder."

[dicion]

another one, and i have to qoute "with conceal carry on campus, teachers will be terrified to fail a CHL holder."

There's CHL Holders in their classes now. The fact that they aren't carrying at that time, doesnt negate their status as a CHL.
Are they terrified of failing them now?
Aren't they worried that since all CHL holders can apparently 'snap', that if they fail them, they'll go home, get their gun, come back and shoot them?


Oh wait, thats right, CHL Holders don't advertise who they are, and even if they were carrying you wouldn't know, because concealed is concealed.
Also, CHL Holders being law abiding citizens is exactly what is preventing them from carrying on campus now.
If they didn't care about breaking the law, they'd be carrying guns on there already!

Are they worried now about people carrying guns ILLEGALLY in their classrooms?
Do they think that it doesn't happen?
I can guarantee you that someone, somewhere, illegally carries a gun to class on a daily basis.
Sure, they're worried about failing that CHL, but they're not worried about failing that gangbanger... because "He CAN'T be carrying... it's Illegal!"



Seriously.. do these people who come up with these arguments even understand logic?