HPD Citizen Patrol program

[normone]

Houston Police sponsors a Citizen Patrol program that trains citizens to drive or walk their neighborhoods and report possible problems they encounter. In the training manual's Code of Conduct is item #7 "Volunteers may not be in possession of any type of weapon, either on his or her person or in the patrolling vehicle. This rule applies to volunteers licensed to carry a handgun in the state of Texas as well." Volunteers must sign a form at the end of the class agreeing to this and some other stipulations. The sergeant conducting the class made a point of saying the form was to relieve the city and department from legal liability and there would be no checking to see if someone was carrying or not.

My question is: Does signing this form mean that someone with a CHL really does have to give up carrying while in their own car, on city streets -- while on patrol?

New to forum but have found it a great place for solid info.

Thanks!

[Purplehood]

I don't have a problem with it. I simply won't volunteer. Just because I am "patrolling" doesn't mean that I should give up any right to defend myself.

[RPB]

So, if you carried in violation of your agreement contract, they could sue you in civil court for breach of contract?
Though you did nothing illegal?
(I know, it's an attempt to protect the city) I guess they could fire you for violating policy, like any employer could, even if it''s a volunteer position
Just out of curiosity, I'd like to read the agreement, see if it has indemnification language or whatever too.

[normone]

I'm afraid I wasn't given a copy and I didn't think to ask for one. To my recollection, it listed the things we couldn't do, which were listed in the Code of Conduct, and simply asked for a signature stating that we read and agreed to the rules. I don't recall any legalese attached to it, but not 100% sure about that.

[magillapd]

I honestly do not see a need for these citizen patrol groups. I work for a LEO agency, but even if I didn't, I always keep an eye out in my neighborhood and call in things that I feel are not right.

There shouldn't have to be a special group to do what every responsible, tax paying, home owning, parent, grandparent, and/or citizen should already be doing.

My point is simple. If every citizen did their part in keeping an eye out then this wouldn't be an issue. Take your home for example. Go stand outside in your yard. Whatever you can see from there, do your part to keep it safe. If everyone did this, you woudn't need large governments, police, etc to do it for you. Same goes for trash actually, if you see it near your home, pick it up. Just imangine if everyone did this. Responsibility & stewardship, it's a wonderful thing.

Sorry for the rant, don't know what came over me

[Dave2]

Sorry for the rant, don't know what came over me

Sounds like common sense & reasonableness. Don't worry, it happens to the best of us from time to time.

[normone]

As I stated, I am new to this forum but it looks to me like this thread didn't take very long to get off topic. I wasn't seeking opinions of the pros and cons of Citizens on Patrol. I wanted to know if anyone had experience or information about the police department's right to circumvent the right to legally carry. I live in a nice, upper-middle class neighborhood that is experiencing the highest crime rate in the city right now including the rape of a neighbor just blocks away. Our community will do what it deems best to make our community safer. It doesn't matter what your view is about the program and it is fine if you don't need it where you are. The issue is if such a program has the legal right to disarm a legal carrier.

[Mel]

I guess I don't see the problem. What would prevent you from patrolling your neighborhood without being on a "Citizen Patrol"? Does it give you any authority that you don't already have?

Don't sign anything an patrol as an independent.

[terryg]

Don't sign anything. You may have been told 'wink wink' that there will be no checking, etc. But if you did have to use your weapon during a CP, I don't see any reason a malicious prosecutor couldn't use that as evidence against you.

[ScottDLS]

Don't sign anything. You may have been told 'wink wink' that there will be no checking, etc. But if you did have to use your weapon during a CP, I don't see any reason a malicious prosecutor couldn't use that as evidence against you.

I understand your sentiment...but what could a malicious prosecutor use the evidence for? Carrying a gun with a CHL isn't a crime...even if you said you wouldn't. That said, I think if I signed the paper I'd follow the rules for the CP program. Or I wouldn't participate.

[terryg]

Don't sign anything. You may have been told 'wink wink' that there will be no checking, etc. But if you did have to use your weapon during a CP, I don't see any reason a malicious prosecutor couldn't use that as evidence against you.

I understand your sentiment...but what could a malicious prosecutor use the evidence for? Carrying a gun with a CHL isn't a crime...even if you said you wouldn't. That said, I think if I signed the paper I'd follow the rules for the CP program. Or I wouldn't participate.

I would be concerned it could be twisted to show that he 'wanted to play cop' ...

[wally775]

Honestly I do not know.
Personally if you signed the statement then I would think (MOO) you
could not carry.

Some questions I would have.

Do you violate the performance of State security rules if you carry
while on citizen patrol?

If you had your security license for carry wouldn’t you still have to be working
for a security company registered in the state?

I do not see how you could carry and not violate some rule that is detrimental to
your CHL.

If you are that concerned could you just get your neighbors to give signed permission
to watch over their property and whenever you had an inclination to take a walk or short drive you could do so at will?

Just some thoughts and opinions only

P.S.
If you did get permission there could be no exchange of $$$ for any reason.

[PUCKER]

The easy way, at least what I choose - forego any volunteer/citizen patrol program and go walking your dog and packing every night! (well, I wish it was every night, so does my dog!).

[ScottDLS]

Don't sign anything. You may have been told 'wink wink' that there will be no checking, etc. But if you did have to use your weapon during a CP, I don't see any reason a malicious prosecutor couldn't use that as evidence against you.

I understand your sentiment...but what could a malicious prosecutor use the evidence for? Carrying a gun with a CHL isn't a crime...even if you said you wouldn't. That said, I think if I signed the paper I'd follow the rules for the CP program. Or I wouldn't participate.

I would be concerned it could be twisted to show that he 'wanted to play cop' ...

Of course he wanted to play cop...otherwise he wouldn't sign up for Citizens' Patrol

But that's not a criminal offense.

So back to the original question...Are you going to find yourself criminally prosecuted for violating that rule of CP? In my opinion, NO.

Then again, I think I hear a thundering unicorn herd in the background...

[Bart]

Why should I give free labor to an organization that doesn't respect a fundamental right?

If I wanted to help the community, I would get the non-emergency number and program that into the speed dial of my cell phone. That way I can keep an eye on thing in my neighborhood without making myself a target.