Face to Face selling of Firearms, buyer ends up Mentally ill

[Beiruty]

I know that in TX it is a legal to sell firearms face to face with a simple proof of residency. However, a classic example is like how the son of Dallas PD Shief was able to acquire a s pistol and and AR-15 and ends up shooting an innocent stranger and Lancaster PD officer?

As revealed in the investigation:
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 5fd61.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The shooter was a drug addict and mentally ill who was hospitalized and treated in a psychiatric hospital.
At least 2 gun-banning rules where violated.

If the firearms were acquired from FFL dealers, they are in heap of trouble. However, if the firearms were acquired from private owners, I know the transaction is legal, however, I cannot discount the moral aspect of the issue, the moral liability that is.

IMHO, paying $20 to make and FFL transfer after face to face transaction is worth it.

[WildBill]

If the firearms were acquired from FFL dealers, they are in heap of trouble.

How do you figure that?

[dcphoto]

If the firearms were acquired from FFL dealers, they are in heap of trouble.

If the 4473 was properly filled out, then the FFL isn't in any trouble. How do you expect an FFL to know whether somebody is an addict or has been treated in a psychiatric hospital?

The .40-caliber Smith & Wesson used to kill McMillian was traced to an Irving man who purchased it at an area pawnshop and later resold it to another Irving pawnshop, which had no record of a buyer, the documents said.

From the article, it would appear that the handgun was stolen, or sold off the books. It isn't clear if the rifle was purchased FTF or stolen from the Albuquerque owner.

[Beiruty]

There is report that one of the firearm was sourced from a pawn shop with no record of a buyer, unless stolen and report as such, it seems that there was no NICS check. Just my assumption.

[Warhammer]

If he bought them through an FFL, then he signed paperwork (form 4473) in which he stated that he was not "mentally defective." The FFL has no responsibility to verify the accuracy of buyer's response (other than completeing the NICS background check) to that question, or any of the other questions such as drug use, renoucement of citizencship, dishonorable discharge, etc... The responsibilty rests upon the buyer to tell the truth when filling out the form.

[Beiruty]

Does NICS show mental hospitalization?

[RPB]

If he borrowed his father's, the Police chief's guns, the victims would be just as dead too.
The shootings occurred on Father's day, maybe dad should have taken him fishing that day.

[Oldgringo]

The Vanity Fair editor apparently thinks we are ALL angry teenagers...with guns.

[WildBill]

The Vanity Fair editor apparently thinks we are ALL angry teenagers...with guns.

Are you an angry teenager?

[WildBill]

Does NICS show mental hospitalization?

From what I have read, some states provide this type of type of information. Due to medical confidentially laws, some do not. I don't know where Texas weighs in.

[Oldgringo]

The Vanity Fair editor apparently thinks we are ALL angry teenagers...with guns.

Are you an angry teenager?

Let me get back to you on that, I'm definitely not a teenager...

I don't read Vanity Fair and still don't think I care what he thinks about, well er, uh...anything. How about you?

[WildBill]

The Vanity Fair editor apparently thinks we are ALL angry teenagers...with guns.

Are you an angry teenager?

Let me get back to you on that, I'm definitely not a teenager...

I don't read Vanity Fair and still don't think I care what he thinks about, well er, uh...anything. How about you?

I don't care what he thinks either. And I'm definitely not a teenager.

[dcphoto]

Does NICS show mental hospitalization?

I don't think they show hospitalization. I think if you are committed or declared mentally defective by a court order that it is reported to the FBI.

[lrb111]

Does NICS show mental hospitalization?

From what I have read, some states provide this type of type of information. Due to medical confidentially laws, some do not. I don't know where Texas weighs in.

I think those records are confidential because of Federal "HIPPA" laws, not state governments.

[Warhammer]

NICS would show the court records regarding the ajudicating or legal committing of someone to a mental hospital, but it would not show any confidential medical data (protected by HIPAA).

This is from the ATF's "Federal Firearms Licensee Quick Reference and Best Practices Guide" regarding the 4473:

Adjudicated Mental Defective or Person Involuntarily Committed to a Mental Institution:
This prohibited person category includes any person who has EVER been adjudicated by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to be, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease, a danger to himself or herself or to others or to lack the mental capacity to contract or to manage his/or her own affairs. This category also includes any person who has been subject to a finding of insanity in a criminal case, including a finding that he or she is incompetent to stand trial. Also included is any person who has EVER been formally committed to a mental institution by a court or other lawful authority. This category does NOT include a person committed to a mental institution solely for observation or a person who was voluntarily admitted to a mental institution.

That last line pretty much sums it up.