Gun Shows - and 30.06

[Teamless]

I am on a mailing list with the High Caliber Gun Shows, so I get reminder emails when the gun shows will be in Houston or Pasadena.
I have not been to one since June probably, and after many discussions (on here and in person) about 30.06 and how the locations are posted 30.06 (legally or not), I have decided not to go to any more gun shows.

So when I got the reminder email a couple of days ago, I decided to take "action" and sent an email to them as below to info@texasgunshows.com

While I have in the past enjoyed the HCGS at G. R. Brown and Pasadena Convention Center, however since becoming a CHL holder, I will not do business at with a any company or business or location that posts the location with the 30.06 signage.
While I know both locations are governmentally owned, and technically cannot be posted off limits with 30.06 exception, I will not be the test case for the law, and until the events are no longer posted 30.06, I and many others like me, will no longer visit any Gun Shows that are “posted”

I know that my email probably won't change a thing, but I think if enough CHL'ers do the same, and stand by our word, to where they get a far smaller turnout and realize the lost revenues, they will finally do something about these locations being posted.

I would like to see others send emails as well, but if not, Oh well, and I will still not visit the gun shows.

[jamisjockey]

I know some gun shows are ordered by the cities or the venues to do so.
What reallly bothered me was the ammo check at the front door. What, its not enough that I put a zip tie in my pistol...you've got to have my ammo? Because I can't buy ammo right here in the show? Now that's just stupid.

[Teamless]

I know some gun shows are ordered by the cities or the venues to do so.

precisely, but by Texas Law, they cannot legally ban CHL's with a 30.06 unless it is a jail, court, or polling place (in a government owned building)...
So If figure the promoters will have to push the cities to stop illegally preventing CHL's, if they want our business.

[jamisjockey]

I know some gun shows are ordered by the cities or the venues to do so.

precisely, but by Texas Law, they cannot legally ban CHL's with a 30.06 unless it is a jail, court, or polling place (in a government owned building)...
So If figure the promoters will have to push the cities to stop illegally preventing CHL's, if they want our business.

They had HPD cops at the Houston gun show last time. No pat downs, but bag checks.

[Teamless]

All of the ones I have been at, the cops have been there, whether it was Pasadena, or GRB.
I have no issues with the cops being there, just with the 30.06 sign posted, and they enforce it, which is against Texas law.

[jamisjockey]

All of the ones I have been at, the cops have been there, whether it was Pasadena, or GRB.
I have no issues with the cops being there, just with the 30.06 sign posted, and they enforce it, which is against Texas law.

Agreed. NOt arguing with you on that aspect at all.

[Divided Attention]

I know some gun shows are ordered by the cities or the venues to do so.

precisely, but by Texas Law, they cannot legally ban CHL's with a 30.06 unless it is a jail, court, or polling place (in a government owned building)...
So If figure the promoters will have to push the cities to stop illegally preventing CHL's, if they want our business.

OK, being a newbie I am VERY confused and have to clarify. My understanding is the ONLY legal way a private business or facility can exclude CHL carriers IS with 30.06 OR verbal notice or written notice from the property owner or their representative.

Is the GRB private or City/Government owned? I do understand (or at least thought I did) that a government owned building cannot exclude with 30.06 unless a jail or courthouse.

Just confused and trying to learn. Thanks!

[srothstein]

You understand correctly, Dividedattention. The only legal way to ban a CHL form carrying is with a 30.06 sign (or oral notice). Government owned buildings, like the GRB Convention Center cannot be legally posted 30.06.

What you missed is that some people and governmental entities do it anyway and challenge the CHL to test the law or push the matter. The theory to be tested is if the private company (gun show host or whoever) leasing the government owned building can then ban as if it were private property. Of course, the plain reading of the law says no because it is government owned, and the legal experts here (notably Mr. Cotton) have talked about the lessor (government owner) cannot grant to the lessee (private renter) permission he does not have himself so the signs are not legally enforceable.

But if they have lawyers willing to push ti or who feel otherwise, that is what courts are for. And it could be just a big bluff where the city is trying to scare people out of their legal authority. But for some reason, the gun show has put up the 30.06 sign anyway.

Do you want to be the test case? Because I generally avoid being anywhere near test cases and advise you to also. This means, of course, that the city/gun show promoter wins and no one carries guns in there that are still loaded.

[Teamless]

I do understand (or at least thought I did) that a government owned building cannot exclude with 30.06 unless a jail or courthouse.

that is a true statement.
However, for all of the gun shows (at least Pasadena and George R. Brown is all my experience has), are both posted with the "legal 30.06" signage, wording size, etc.

Both the GRB and Pasadena Convention Center are government facilities, yet they do post them anyway, which is not supposed to be allowed.

That being said, if someone were found to be carrying under CHL at either location and were arrested, and attempted to be prosecuted, I believe the way the law is written, that person would not be found guilty.
I do not have the money or time or wanton to be that test case.

Much like many of us have stated on this forum, we will not give money to those locations that do not allow us to carry under our CHL. if we are intellectually honest with ourselves, I believe this also should be the way with Gun Shows, and ESPECIALLY gun shows, as CHLs do (in my opinion) spend A LOT of money at gun shows, and if we take our money out of there and give it to places that respect our CHL, maybe things will change. I know in my opinion, I purchased 3 weapons this year alone, along with a few trinkets, at GRB and Pasadena, and if I spent $1500 or so, imagine that times how many CHL's that go to shows annually in Texas... now that is a voice we have and can shout with!

[Mike1951]

Re: Gun Show Attendance & Conceal Carry
by Mike1951 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:45 pm

I have always opined that posting is a requirement of the promoter's insurance.

This was semi-confirmed when Jim Dark, former executive director of the TSRA, stated that they were required to post their annual gun show in Mesquite or forgo insurance on the event.

Mike
TSRA Life Member
NRA Benefactor Member

I continue to believe that the posting is required by the insurance provider.

You can bet that insurance is required by the lessor.

No insurance, no gun show.

It is revealing that even the Texas State Rifle Association is required to post 30.06 at their gun show.

[Beiruty]

In Allen TX, there was not valid 30.06 just a statement that reads "absolutely no CHLers" . Inside there was APD Officers to zip tie your firearm. I left my carry piece in the car. But never came the next time they had the show.

[blue]

......Perhaps this should be corrected in the 2011 session.....

If a CHLer disregards or didn't see the 30.06 sign (reports of some that are practically hidden)
the CHLer is PUNISHED and probably loses weapon etc.

Yet people are posting ILLEGAL SIGNS AND ENFORCE THEM ILLEGALLY with NO PUNISHMENT AT ALL!

Shouldn't the law/rules SEVERELY PUNISH people who are :
INTENTIONALLY BREAKING THE VERY SAME LAW/RULES about posting/observing the 30.06 signs?????


("...ignorance of the law is no excuse....")
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IF (?) the insurance companys are requiring 30.06 to be illegally posted, are they not breaking the law?
Wouldn't they require ALL businesses to post?
Why just the shows?
Illegally posting would really leave them wide open if sued by a 'test case' seems like.)

[Teamless]

IF (?) the insurance companys are requiring 30.06 to be illegally posted, are they not breaking the law?

its not illegal to post the sign, only wrong.

Illegally posting would really leave them wide open if sued by a 'test case' seems like.

if I could change this to "wrongly posting", then you still have the issue of someone willing to be the test case. I am not willing, are you?

[longtooth]

All the above is true about not wanting to be the test case.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
time, effort, frustration,.................
The biggest one thing no one is thinking about or mentioned is after the arrest & until disposition, you cant carry. Neked on the street.
says the BGs.

[jamisjockey]

If I hit the lotto....I won't be the test case, but I'll hire Charles to run around suing the pants off 'em!