I know, I know...safety, BUT...

[Dragonfighter]

Anyone know what laws if any affect the use of handguns in stage productions? The only thing I could find in the law concerns reenactments, blanks, 15' minimums, et al. Those were in the ABC laws and echoed in PC 46. I know that the reenactment permissions cover stunt gunfights and what not.

Prop guns are preferable but in cases where time and circumstance demand, a weapons master and "real" firearm become the option.

I know the safety concerns about functioning firearms in stage settings, but that aside; hypothetically what ramifications? Any one have any experience in this?

[MadMonkey]

I'd go to Wal Mart and buy an Airsoft pistol before I'd take that risk.

[Dave2]

I'd go to Wal Mart and buy an Airsoft pistol before I'd take that risk.

[Purplehood]

In todays PC-climate things may be different, but in the past there used to be alot of highly convincing plastic models of various firearms. Any serious Hobby store carrying car, plane, ship models and the like would be likely to have them.

[RAM4171]

All of the airsoft guns a Wally World are clear now so you would have to paint it. I think Academy and Bass Pro both carry realistic models.
Does anyone remember Brandon Lee? What a tragic occourance.

[Dragonfighter]

All of the airsoft guns a Wally World are clear now so you would have to paint it. I think Academy and Bass Pro both carry realistic models.
Does anyone remember Brandon Lee? What a tragic occourance.

Brandon Lee was killed when the slug from a dummy remained behind when the rounds were changed. Dummies are the inert rounds they loaded for close up of the gun. A set of blanks were loaded and then the slug from the dummy was propelled like a real bullet killing him almost instantly. Having mixed use ammo around a gun for use in film and stage in the same bldg is a definite no-no.

Added in edit: Airsoft would be good except if a shot was to be fired. Any reenacters here?

[pbwalker]

Is it possible to remove the barrel and put the slide back on? I've never tried...but that might be a way to (at least) add an additional element of safety.

But yeah...Airsoft would be ideal in this type of setup.

[olafpfj]

I don't know the ramifications of using a real firearm in a live production. I am pretty sure though that you would need to think along the lines that, if it weren't for the production, would you be in trouble for discharging a firearm just because? The answer would almost certainly be yes unless you live out in the sticks. If nothing else it would be discharging within city limits. Prop firearms are modified to prevent an actual live round from being chambered. They will only chamber blanks and as such are not considered firearms. This allows the rental houses to ship them to high schools, community groups, etc. without going through an FFL. You still treat them for safety purposes as real firearms however.

I work full time in live entertainment and have dealt many times with prop firearms. The guys had to go through so many hoops to use the M-16's on Miss Saigon in New York. There are many prop versions of firearms available for rent. If you can't get or can't afford an authentic, functioning, fireable prop then either paint up some airsoft, carve some wood or CAN THE GAG.

I'm not trying to sound hostile when I say this but...If I were to ever work on a show that attempted to use a real firearm in the production I would walk off the job and call the police. Its no joke and it should never ever be done.....
When I was touring with Les Miserables we had some old trap door rifles for the fight scenes and getting those permitted and used often involved a visit from the local sheriff. It took hours at the border to get them into Canada. We also used a pair of .38's for some special shots that came from the audience area. ALL WERE BLANK FIRING PROPS!!!!

On another note. Some enterprising members of the London production of Miss Saigon actually stole a few of the non firing prop M-16's and held up a bank with them. It wasn't hard for the police to figure out where they came from and who did it.

[Dragonfighter]

I don't know the ramifications of using a real firearm in a live production. I am pretty sure though that you would need to think along the lines that, if it weren't for the production, would you be in trouble for discharging a firearm just because? The answer would almost certainly be yes unless you live out in the sticks. If nothing else it would be discharging within city limits. Prop firearms are modified to prevent an actual live round from being chambered. They will only chamber blanks and as such are not considered firearms. This allows the rental houses to ship them to high schools, community groups, etc. without going through an FFL. You still treat them for safety purposes as real firearms however.<SNIP>

Thanks all. It was an interesting thought experiment. I know reenactors use live six guns with blanks and the rules spell out specifically 15' for short guns, etc. I was curious how that would translate, if at all to reenactment on stage. Curious the rules are in the ABC code and simply referred to in PC 46.

[ex_dsmr]

No way would I ever use a "real" firearm in anything like that.
You say "I know, I know...saftey, but" As far as in concerned...there are no but's. SAFETY!
Get a blank gun, or better yet an airsoft and use sound effects.

Plus blanks would be an ear splitter in an enclosed area such as a stage. Not to mention all the smoke.

[Fangs]

I missed this post earlier, but as far as I know, Academy still sells black P99 replica airsoft guns with just an orange tip.

[Warhammer]

Anyone know what laws if any affect the use of handguns in stage productions? The only thing I could find in the law concerns reenactments, blanks, 15' minimums, et al. Those were in the ABC laws and echoed in PC 46. I know that the reenactment permissions cover stunt gunfights and what not.

Prop guns are preferable but in cases where time and circumstance demand, a weapons master and "real" firearm become the option.

I know the safety concerns about functioning firearms in stage settings, but that aside; hypothetically what ramifications? Any one have any experience in this?

If you're in DFW, I have a couple of VERY realistic airsoft pistols that I'd be happy to lend you. Just PM me.

[Dragonfighter]

Anyone know what laws if any affect the use of handguns in stage productions? The only thing I could find in the law concerns reenactments, blanks, 15' minimums, et al. Those were in the ABC laws and echoed in PC 46. I know that the reenactment permissions cover stunt gunfights and what not.

Prop guns are preferable but in cases where time and circumstance demand, a weapons master and "real" firearm become the option.

I know the safety concerns about functioning firearms in stage settings, but that aside; hypothetically what ramifications? Any one have any experience in this?

If you're in DFW, I have a couple of VERY realistic airsoft pistols that I'd be happy to lend you. Just PM me.

I really appreciate it but we made do. It had to be consistent with the forties so a "police" revolver was called for. The problem was a worn out stunt gun that chambered 8mm blanks and would not stay closed or fire reliably. So I became the de facto weapons master and we came up with a solution. I will most definitely keep your offer in mind should I find myself tapped for such a task in the future.