New York City investigates Arizona gun show

[Charles L. Cotton]

CORRECTION:
I was wrong about it being the BATFE that sent a letter to NYC about their illegal purchases of firearms out of New York State. It was the U.S. Dept. of Justice that sent the letter. A copy is attached.

Even in the extremely deferential tone taken (which sickens me), it's clear that NYC was being told to knock off the illegal conduct of purchasing firearms. Please note the reference to being "without proper law enforcement authority" which was the case in 2007 and again in 2011. Bloomberg and NYC simply do not care about federal law and wager that the Obama DOJ will not care either.

Chas.

[Excaliber]

If this is true.....

In two instances, the New York undercover officers specifically said before buying a gun, “I probably couldn’t pass a background check,” but were still sold guns, city officials said.

.... the sellers should be hit with appropriate charges.
Not only does that Sellers behavior make us ALL look bad, it's just plain wrong... dishonorable.

What makes you believe this was said, or that it was said before the purchase? Bloomberg pulled this in Georgia a few years ago and the BATFE Director sent a letter to NYC telling them it was a violation of federal law and to stop immediately.

I guess Bloomberg feels he and his local COPS don't have to worry about being prosecuted for violating federal law as long as Obama is in the White House.

Chas.

I did preface my comments with "if this is true"... Believe me, I don't take Bloomberg at his word..

Whether or not NYC continues to violate Fed law is certainly an issue to be discussed... but that still doesn't obviate the portion of this issue I was hoping to focus on ... the fact that this behavior does exist and guns are being sold to persons who are prohibited.....

Should an ex-spouse on a restraining order, or a convicted felon, rapist, child molester, etc. have such an easy time purchasing a gun? It's a joke how easy it is for prohibited persons to purchase a gun... Take a shower, shave, put on some clean clothes, look respectable, and go to the gun show... ... It's just as easy to for them to buy a gun through a local "gun trader" type web site... I had a half dozen full-price buyers for a recent sale "change their mind" when I told them I would require ID and bill of sale..

I read all the time on this forum that tougher laws only make it harder for the law abiding, and I agree... And folks here will certainly argue that it's none of anyone's business when they are legally buying a gun... but.. how do we begin to keep guns out of the hands of people who should not possess them? Or do we just give up and assume that it's an impossible task?

Inquiring minds..

When a convicted felon out on parole from 3 life sentences kills a Massachusetts police officer during a jewelry store robbery (as happened over the holidays), more paperwork requirements for an already heavily regulated product's supply chain is an unlikely solution. It's a bad bet because it's never worked with anything else people place a value on before, and there's no reason to believe the future will be any different.

While pondering the solution to this problem, you might also consider that a 10X convicted drunk driver can walk into any car dealership in the country, put down his money, and, without a background check, purchase and immediately drive his new car to any liquor store. He can then freely purchase alcohol, drink himself into a stupor in his car, and kill multiple innocent folks on the way home. Does anyone see criminal background checks for car and liquor purchases as a viable way to save livesfind?

The point here is that focus on the object as the source of the threat is misplaced. The issue is dealing with the people.

If a person prohibited from buying a gun due to a serious criminal offense attempts to buy one, a my first question would be: "Why isn't he still in jail?"

Adding more layers of paperwork to a regulated product's supply chain doesn't solve problems like this, and total prohibitions simply create opportunity for highly profitable smuggling operations as we see with guns into Mexico and drugs into the U.S.

The answer is to find effective ways to deal with folks who have demonstrated legally sufficient proof that they pose a danger to themselves or others, either through interpersonal violence or mental disease.

IMHO, sharply reducing the availability of parole for violent offenses and increasing it for nonviolent posessory offenses would go a long ways toward improving public safety.

[TexDotCom]

to a well thought out post with which heartily.

[Excaliber]

CORRECTION:
I was wrong about it being the BATFE that sent a letter to NYC about their illegal purchases of firearms out of New York State. It was the U.S. Dept. of Justice that sent the letter. A copy is attached.

Even in the extremely deferential tone taken (which sickens me), it's clear that NYC was being told to knock off the illegal conduct of purchasing firearms. Please note the reference to being "without proper law enforcement authority" which was the case in 2007 and again in 2011. Bloomberg and NYC simply do not care about federal law and wager that the Obama DOJ will not care either.

Chas.

Considering the history and the warning, this theatrical mission masquerading as a law enforcement effort begs the question of whether a DOJ "arrangement" preceded the apparently unlawful activity. Mayor Bloomberg is an ambitious man, but I don't think he is a reckless or stupid one. He was smart enough not to have released a video that would have provided a clear basis for prosecution of the investigators involved, and unattributed allegations in a newspaper article wouldn't cut it. In fact, there's no verifiable evidence to support whether or not the alleged conversations and actions happened at all, but most folks will take the article at face value and assume they did. That's the beauty of propaganda.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Looking back at my posts, it looks like I'm coming on strong against RoyGBiv and for that I apologize. Obviously this is a hot button issue with me and I can't go into detail why this is the case. Suffice it to say that when Bloomberg did this in 2007, I stated that if he and his NYC PD cohorts were not prosecuted, that he would do it again when the dust settled. Well, here we are again.

Chas.

[Beiruty]

The beter way is to.let an FFL do the transfer of your private sale.

[RPB]

When will the Federal indictments come down arresting the Mayor and Residents of NY who committed this fraud and violations of State and Federal law?

Inquiring minds want to know.
=============================
I'll let you know what the USDOJ http://www.justice.gov/ag/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and ATFTips say about the illegal conspiracy/RICOH activity http://www.atf.gov/contact/hotlines/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
if they reply ...

As an American citizen, I felt a duty to report the illegal activity by Bloomburg and his accomplices which appear to violate the RICOH statutes, and other Federal laws. I hope they'll enforce the CURRENT laws. We need to STOP those CRAZY people and organized crime.



What's sauce for the Goose, is Sauce for the Gander.

[RoyGBiv]

Looking back at my posts, it looks like I'm coming on strong against RoyGBiv and for that I apologize. Obviously this is a hot button issue with me and I can't go into detail why this is the case. Suffice it to say that when Bloomberg did this in 2007, I stated that if he and his NYC PD cohorts were not prosecuted, that he would do it again when the dust settled. Well, here we are again.

Chas.

Thanks.! No offense taken.. I was the one that was off topic (acknowledged earlier) and trying to steer the discussion to a narrower issue that was probably better handled in a separate thread.

Just to show you there's absolutely no hard feelings, I'd still buy you an early dinner on Thursday if you decided to add that extra class day at Cabela's in FTW on Thursday night... ... I sure would like to attend, but that Friday class filled up before I could work out changing my plans for Friday night.

Cheers.

[VMI77]

Considering the history and the warning, this theatrical mission masquerading as a law enforcement effort begs the question of whether a DOJ "arrangement" preceded the apparently unlawful activity.

It's a pretty safe bet it did given the bunch in power. This is more evidence that an organized anti-gun propaganda campaign is in action.

[RPB]

Considering the history and the warning, this theatrical mission masquerading as a law enforcement effort begs the question of whether a DOJ "arrangement" preceded the apparently unlawful activity.

It's a pretty safe bet it did given the bunch in power. This is more evidence that an organized anti-gun propaganda campaign is in action.

Ahhh I see, so government officials can "arrange" (conspire) to do things otherwise illegal, under "color of office" and not be accountable.

Is that the "Watergate" defense?

[rm9792]

The beter way is to.let an FFL do the transfer of your private sale.

So waste money on an FFL that won't accomplish anything? Loughner passed a BG check. Vermont shooter passed a BG check. Only winner here is the FFL at $50 a head. BG checks are not a panacea nor even a hindrance. You need to pursue the criminal, not the tool.

[tacticool]

I propose a new motto for them, inspired by the notorious Freudian slip by one of Bloomberg's personal heroes.

NYPD does not exist to prevent crimes. NYPD exists to commit crimes.

[Beiruty]

The beter way is to.let an FFL do the transfer of your private sale.

So waste money on an FFL that won't accomplish anything? Loughner passed a BG check. Vermont shooter passed a BG check. Only winner here is the FFL at $50 a head. BG checks are not a panacea nor even a hindrance. You need to pursue the criminal, not the tool.

If you.have doubt that the buyer is disqualifief from buying firearms, ask the buyer to pay ectra $20 for an FFL transfer fee. Last transfet, i paid only $10 with my CHL

[Heartland Patriot]

Reading this topic reminds me of why I joined this forum. Mr. Cotton runs a good forum and there are so many fine folks with so much combined knowledge on here. I learn a little something valuable every time I come on and read something new. Thanks and darned glad to be here...