Kindel

Topics that do not fit anywhere else. Absolutely NO discussions of religion, race, or immigration!

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

Shoot Straight
Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:28 pm

Re: Kindel

Post by Shoot Straight »

WildBill wrote:
Shoot Straight wrote:The publishers really need to get e-textbook costs down to 10-20% of the real thing to make them competitive.
I think that it's more about royalties and licensing fees than the true cost of "manufacturing" and distributing.
True, but that ignores the reality of the marketplace. Many professors like to stick with a particular textbook for a few years, so they don't have to continuously revamp their lesson plans and exams. So let's say I sell the real book to a Summer 2011 semester student, and that person sells it to a Fall 2011 semester student, and that person sells it to a Spring 2012 semester student, and then the professor decides to use a different textbook. I bought the real textbook online for 65-70% of the list price, and I bet the online bookstore made money on the book, so the publisher got less than 65-70% of list from the online store. If it's used for only one more year past this semester, that's potentially 4 students who use the book, with no additional royalties to the publisher. 70% of list, divided by 4 students, is 17.5% of list per student. The publisher would have come out ahead by selling an e-book to each of those students for 20% of list. That also assumes there's no concurrent use of the real textbook.

It's true the publisher can charge whatever they want for the e-book, but students also have options.

However, the economics are very different for K-12 textbooks, which are often owned by the school rather than purchased by the students.
Ride
Shoot Straight
Speak the Truth
User avatar
WildBill
Senior Member
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Kindel

Post by WildBill »

Shoot Straight wrote:
WildBill wrote:
Shoot Straight wrote:The publishers really need to get e-textbook costs down to 10-20% of the real thing to make them competitive.
I think that it's more about royalties and licensing fees than the true cost of "manufacturing" and distributing.
True, but that ignores the reality of the marketplace. Many professors like to stick with a particular textbook for a few years, so they don't have to continuously revamp their lesson plans and exams. So let's say I sell the real book to a Summer 2011 semester student, and that person sells it to a Fall 2011 semester student, and that person sells it to a Spring 2012 semester student, and then the professor decides to use a different textbook. I bought the real textbook online for 65-70% of the list price, and I bet the online bookstore made money on the book, so the publisher got less than 65-70% of list from the online store. If it's used for only one more year past this semester, that's potentially 4 students who use the book, with no additional royalties to the publisher. 70% of list, divided by 4 students, is 17.5% of list per student. The publisher would have come out ahead by selling an e-book to each of those students for 20% of list. That also assumes there's no concurrent use of the real textbook.

It's true the publisher can charge whatever they want for the e-book, but students also have options.
I didn't realize that you are a student and that was your frame of reference. What you say is true, but textbook publishing is a whole different business. The textbook "marketplace" is totally different than for most other "trade" books. IMO, the mark-up on college textbooks is ridiculous, but they have a captive market. If the student wants to pass the course, he doesn't have too much choice whether or not he wishes to buy the book.
NRA Endowment Member
b322da
Senior Member
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:34 am
Location: College Station, Texas

Re: Kindel

Post by b322da »

Shoot Straight wrote: SKIP On the subject of schools, I'm taking a night class at community college and the textbook is offered as an e-book. However, they charge half the list price of a real book, and there's no resale value. I bought a NEW textbook online for LESS than the CC bookstore cost of a USED book, so I may be able to sell it next semester and recover most of what I paid. The publishers really need to get e-textbook costs down to 10-20% of the real thing to make them competitive.
It's coming, Shoot Straight. I am told that one of the problems with expediting the process, at least in higher education, is the authors of the books, who are also the professors who mandate their books be used by their students, along with their publishers. It is not an exaggeration to observe that just changing a few paragraphs in a standard volume can result in a new edition and more sales to new students and continued income to the professor, and these professors have a lot of power in the educational system. No longer can a student sell his textbook to the class coming after him. I'm sure that many of us have seen this in play.

Now with an eBook the amendment can be made by inserting a few bits and bytes via simple old M$ Word. No composing, typesetting, editing, distribution, agents, warehousing, advertising, purchase of trees, and many a middle-man is cut out, including the poor professor.

On eReaders more and more we see authors sending their manuscript to Amazon digitally and it is published. The latest I hear is that the author is entitled to about 70% of the digital purchase price from Amazon if published directly, whereas with DTBs only a really successful author might get as much as 30%. You can do the math. A book costing $9.99 with 70% to the author is more than 30% of a $20.00 hard back. The author really takes a hit.

Amazon's objective, in the beginning, was to have no book cost more than $9.99. Then DTB publishers ganged up on Amazon, and when they hold the digital copyright they charge higher prices on Amazon. Amazon prominently displays in its Kindle Store whether or not the price was set by the author or the publisher holding the digital copyrights. I think all eReaders suffer the same. Then Apple weighed in when it brought out the iPad, and arguably, working with publishers, managed to raise the price of eBooks everywhere.

But it is coming, and the younger ones here will, I suggest, see it. :thumbs2:

Elmo
Last edited by b322da on Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Oldgringo
Senior Member
Posts: 11203
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Pineywoods of east Texas

Re: Kindel

Post by Oldgringo »

I'm beginning to question the economic benefits to this reader of this purchase. We have library cards and Mrs. Oldgringo buys our who-dunnits through various bookclubs where you get a few new books in excahange for a promise to buy a couple over the next couple of years or so. When the smoke clears we have books that we can trade for others or sell or something.

As I peruse the Amazon list of Kindle books for authors we know and like, I'm looking at $10-15 purchases for each and that ain't no bargain.

Quite frankly, we're not into the classics. Somebody help meee...
Texas10X
Senior Member
Posts: 247
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:00 pm
Location: Cat Spring, TX

Re: Kindel

Post by Texas10X »

A very nice feature that I haven't seen anyone mention yet is the ability to change font size. You can also "dog-ear" (mark) pages and then easily return to them just by clicking a button. Buying and downloading books is easy and fast. You don't have to store physical books (that take up a lot of room), or hassle with reselling or trading them, etc.

Just be sure that you look at the specific model's capabilities. The one that's about $199 doesn't have full capabilities.
Last edited by Texas10X on Sat Sep 29, 2012 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
b322da
Senior Member
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:34 am
Location: College Station, Texas

Re: Kindel

Post by b322da »

Howdy, Texas10X,

I think you may have made a little typo on the price of the Kindle. The new ones are either $139, with WiFi only, or $189, with both WiFi and 3G.

All the very best,

Elmo
User avatar
Oldgringo
Senior Member
Posts: 11203
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:15 pm
Location: Pineywoods of east Texas

Re: Kindel

Post by Oldgringo »

Well, it shouldn't be long now and then we'll see what we've done.

Thanks everybody.
User avatar
WildBill
Senior Member
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Kindel

Post by WildBill »

Oldgringo wrote:Well, it shouldn't be long now and then we'll see what we've done.

Thanks everybody.
Although it may not be the primary source of your wife's reading material, I am sure that she will get a lot of use and enjoyment from it. I look forward to your comments.
NRA Endowment Member
Abraham
Senior Member
Posts: 8406
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:43 am

Re: Kindel

Post by Abraham »

"As I peruse the Amazon list of Kindle books for authors we know and like, I'm looking at $10-15 purchases for each and that ain't no bargain."

Well said Oldgringo!

Given our tax dollars support public libraries I prefer to use them rather than buy books. Certainly, I buy the odd book now and again, but the library is THE way to go for me most of the time.

So, of course, since I can download library audio books that are already paid for with my tax dollars, that's what I currently do. (but, drat, not on a Kindle as of yet...)

So, now I ask: Are ANY of the Kindle-like devices able to access library books? (not including laptops)

Cuz, if there is such a library accessible device, why buy a Kindle? (Kindle's seem like a cover charge to get into the club where you get to spend even more money.

What a racket!
User avatar
The Annoyed Man
Senior Member
Posts: 26885
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:59 pm
Location: North Richland Hills, Texas
Contact:

Re: Kindel

Post by The Annoyed Man »

WildBill wrote:
Oldgringo wrote:Well, it shouldn't be long now and then we'll see what we've done.

Thanks everybody.
Although it may not be the primary source of your wife's reading material, I am sure that she will get a lot of use and enjoyment from it. I look forward to your comments.
It may be just the novelty of it, but I've found that the Kindle app on my iPad has become my primary reading source. I carry the thing with me most places I go anyway, and it is handy to have access to a book to read during snatches of down time, like the doctor's office waiting rooms and such.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”

― G. Michael Hopf, "Those Who Remain"

#TINVOWOOT
Rex B
Senior Member
Posts: 3616
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 3:30 pm
Location: DFW

Re: Kindel

Post by Rex B »

I've been reading ebooks on my iPhone for the last year. I've had no problem finding more free reading material than I can read in my lifetime.
I always have a stack of reading material in my pocket. Love it!

As for textbooks, at least one local school district (Keller?) announced a plan to provide iPads to all students of one school in lieu of textbooks. apparently a set of new textbooks for one student was about the same price as an iPad preloaded with all the textbooks. Makes sense to me.

Order a Nook online a few weeks ago for $90. I think Mom will end up with that.
-----------
“Sometimes there is no alternative to uncertainty except to await the arrival of more and better data.” C. Wunsch
User avatar
WildBill
Senior Member
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Kindel

Post by WildBill »

From the Amazon website: Kindle 3G
Amazon also backs up annotations you make in books you purchase from us so that they will be available to you if you re-download the content from your library. Amazon.com does not back up personal documents, MP3s, or other content that you download or transfer from your computer to your Kindle which you have not purchased from the Kindle Store.
Interesting feature.
NRA Endowment Member
b322da
Senior Member
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:34 am
Location: College Station, Texas

Re: Kindel

Post by b322da »

WildBill wrote:From the Amazon website Kindle 3G.
Amazon also backs up annotations you make in books you purchase from us so that they will be available to you if you re-download the content from your library. Amazon.com does not back up personal documents, MP3s, or other content that you download or transfer from your computer to your Kindle which you have not purchased from the Kindle Store.
Interesting feature.
Another thing about the Kindle that is not generally known, WildBill, is that "your" books may not actually be on your Kindle. After reading a Kindle book you can "delete" it, which is a misnomer because you do not really delete it, but, rather, your send it to your personal account on the Amazon server (a free backup). You can redownload books on your account at no cost. The title of the book you moved is still on your Kindle, but all the bits and bytes go back to Amazon until you want them again. You may recall that I said earlier that I have more than 500 books on mine. Actually it more like 691. 451 of those are moved to the Amazon server. Available on my Kindle are 140 books. My Kindle, for example, has about 1500 MB total available for data (book) storage, and I have 1352 MB still available.

It is worthy of noting that counting as just one book of those 691 books is a collection of the more than 200 books written by Charles Dickens (cost me all of $2.99). Also counting as but one of those books is all the Sherlock Holmes series (cost me $0.99). I have most of the Zane Gray westerns (counted as one book), all the works of Aristotle (counts as one book), all western stories of Elmore Leonard (1 book), the works of F. Scott Fitzgerald (1 book), and more, so in fact I have well over 1000 books, using only 148 of some 1500 MB.

I have unlimited space on Amazon's server, so there is no way I will ever run out of room. As a matter of fact I will be surprised if I read all the books on my Kindle before I pass away, but I am working at it, and adding to the list daily.

In case you do not want someone who borrows your Kindle to know what kind of books you read, WildBill, you can delete them for real from the Amazon server. :nono:

BTW, if ladies in the crowd are into recipes or crafts, they will find Kindle for PC is great for them.

Elmo
Last edited by b322da on Mon Feb 21, 2011 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
WildBill
Senior Member
Posts: 17350
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:53 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Kindel

Post by WildBill »

b322da wrote:Another thing about the Kindle that is not generally known, WildBill, is that "your" books may not actually be on your Kindle. Elmo
So is the claim that you can store 3,500 books not true? Or does this apply only to books purchased from Amazon?
NRA Endowment Member
b322da
Senior Member
Posts: 707
Joined: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:34 am
Location: College Station, Texas

Re: Kindel

Post by b322da »

WildBill wrote:
b322da wrote:Another thing about the Kindle that is not generally known, WildBill, is that "your" books may not actually be on your Kindle. Elmo
So is the claim that you can store 3,500 books not true? Or does this apply only to books purchased from Amazon?
I would never make such a claim. There are books and there are books, WildBill. I have Gibbons' Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire, War and Peace, and Churchill's series on WWII -- BIG books. On the other hand I have some very short books. I think any claim such as that is foolish, no matter whether it is presented as a positive or a negative. It is a matter of bits and bytes. BTW, the Kindle Store tells you how many pages in the hardbound and how many KBs in the Kindle.

Perhaps your source for that number was thinking of books on your Kindle and not in your archives at Amazon, and has a number of KB in mind as an "average" book size. That number is meaningless to me. On the one hand I have only 1500 MB on my Kindle device, but I have unlimited space on the Amazon server.

Relevant here, I neglected to mention that only books purchased from Amazon can be moved to the Amazon server for storage. You can backup books from other sources in your PC if you wish.

I hope I understood the question and made a stab at answering it, WildBill. BTW, if I recall a posting from way back, I suspect your wife may be a candidate for law books going on eReaders, rather than in backpacks, and that she has seen expensive textbooks which cannot be sold to new classes because of new editions which have few changes. If I misrecall, my apologies to your wife for accusing her of becoming a lawyer. ;-)

Elmo
Post Reply

Return to “Off-Topic”