TSRA and Open-Carry

[Charles L. Cotton]

Well, it looks like it's time for my biennial disclaimer. I received an email from one of our TexasCHLforum Members who said he read a post or thread on OpenCarry.org indicating a belief that Alice Tripp, TSRA Legislative Director would oppose an open-carry bill. Apparently, some of the folks over there are concerned that Rep. Lavender hasn't filed an open-carry bill yet and are looking for someone to blame. The comment was attributed to a former Member here on TexasCHLforum who was banned for repeatedly violating our rules and the comment was supported by another banned Member who boasts of sneaking back in under a different user name and email address. (Neither of these guys miss an opportunity to badmouth me, but coming from them it hardly matters.)

Let me assure TexasCHLforum Members that neither Alice Tripp, TSRA, NRA, Texas Firearms Coalition, nor I will oppose an open-carry bill if it is filed. The only exception to this statement is the possibility that an open-carry bill might be drafted so broad as to provide an opportunity for anti-gun amendments to be added in committee, or on the floor. We will monitor any open-carry bill just like we monitor every other bill involving firearms or their usage. If anti-gun amendments are proposed, we will fight them and if they are approved and added to the bill, we will have no choice but to try to kill the bill. I believe such amendments would be unlikely, except for the very fertile ground dealing with TPC §30.06. Nevertheless, we should be able to kill any anti-gun amendments without having to oppose the entire bill.

I can also attest that none of the above-listed people or organizations have done anything to discourage freshman Rep. Lavender from filing an open-carry bill. We do not oppose any bill that expands firearms rights. The problem at OpenCarry.org is that they have an "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. Since NRA and TSRA didn't blindly support their proposed bill in 2009, we somehow became the enemy. (NRA is supporting a Florida open-carry bill, so I guess that pours water on that claim.)

My comments will not do anything to allay any fears at OpenCarry.org, but I hope it gives some comfort to TexasCHLforum Members.

Chas.

[74novaman]

So Lavender hasn't filed it, and now its TSRAs fault...got it.

Has no one on ocdo tried simply asking Lavender himself why he hasn't filed, instead of trying to blame other gun rights organizations? Sheesh.

[Keith B]

So Lavender hasn't filed it, and now its TSRAs fault...got it.

Has no one on ocdo tried simply asking Lavender himself why he hasn't filed, instead of trying to blame other gun rights organizations? Sheesh.

I don't know this for a fact, but my guess is the issue is similar to last session when some of the radical open carry proponents tried to use heavy handed tactics and force a Texas legislator to introduce open carry legislation, and the Rep. dropped them like a hot potato. If so, then it is easier to try and throw the blame over the fence than to look bad cause they poo'ed in their own nest again.

[74novaman]

I'd honestly be surprised if they were heavy handing him. I've done a little reading over at ocdo and they seemed genuinely pleased someone was planning on sponsoring a bill, and they had made an effort to talk to him in the "off year" of the legislature (that whole planning ahead thing Charles keeps talking about). I think the more likely scenario is Lavender got to asking around in Austin and no one was interested in signing on with him, so he dropped the idea.

[flintknapper]

Well, it looks like it's time for my biennial disclaimer. I received an email from one of our TexasCHLforum Members who said he read a post or thread on OpenCarry.org indicating a belief that Alice Tripp, TSRA Legislative Director would oppose an open-carry bill. Apparently, some of the folks over there are concerned that Rep. Lavender hasn't filed an open-carry bill yet and are looking for someone to blame. The comment was attributed to a former Member here on TexasCHLforum who was banned for repeatedly violating our rules and the comment was supported by another banned Member who boasts of sneaking back in under a different user name and email address. (Neither of these guys miss an opportunity to badmouth me, but coming from them it hardly matters.)

Let me assure TexasCHLforum Members that neither Alice Tripp, TSRA, NRA, Texas Firearms Coalition, nor I will oppose an open-carry bill if it is filed. The only exception to this statement is the possibility that an open-carry bill might be drafted so broad as to provide an opportunity for anti-gun amendments to be added in committee, or on the floor. We will monitor any open-carry bill just like we monitor every other bill involving firearms or their usage. If anti-gun amendments are proposed, we will fight them and if they are approved and added to the bill, we will have no choice but to try to kill the bill. I believe such amendments would be unlikely, except for the very fertile ground dealing with TPC §30.06. Nevertheless, we should be able to kill any anti-gun amendments without having to oppose the entire bill.

I can also attest that none of the above-listed people or organizations have done anything to discourage freshman Rep. Lavender from filing an open-carry bill. We do not oppose any bill that expands firearms rights. The problem at OpenCarry.org is that they have an "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. Since NRA and TSRA didn't blindly support their proposed bill in 2009, we somehow became the enemy. (NRA is supporting a Florida open-carry bill, so I guess that pours water on that claim.)

My comments will not do anything to allay any fears at OpenCarry.org, but I hope it gives some comfort to TexasCHLforum Members.

Chas.

That's good news, but it will leave some folks thinking that only covers one aspect of the issue (Opposition). Does that also mean...that any/all of the mentioned persons/organizations would SUPPORT an Open Carry Bill....(subject to the same restrictions you cited)?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Well, it looks like it's time for my biennial disclaimer. I received an email from one of our TexasCHLforum Members who said he read a post or thread on OpenCarry.org indicating a belief that Alice Tripp, TSRA Legislative Director would oppose an open-carry bill. Apparently, some of the folks over there are concerned that Rep. Lavender hasn't filed an open-carry bill yet and are looking for someone to blame. The comment was attributed to a former Member here on TexasCHLforum who was banned for repeatedly violating our rules and the comment was supported by another banned Member who boasts of sneaking back in under a different user name and email address. (Neither of these guys miss an opportunity to badmouth me, but coming from them it hardly matters.)

Let me assure TexasCHLforum Members that neither Alice Tripp, TSRA, NRA, Texas Firearms Coalition, nor I will oppose an open-carry bill if it is filed. The only exception to this statement is the possibility that an open-carry bill might be drafted so broad as to provide an opportunity for anti-gun amendments to be added in committee, or on the floor. We will monitor any open-carry bill just like we monitor every other bill involving firearms or their usage. If anti-gun amendments are proposed, we will fight them and if they are approved and added to the bill, we will have no choice but to try to kill the bill. I believe such amendments would be unlikely, except for the very fertile ground dealing with TPC §30.06. Nevertheless, we should be able to kill any anti-gun amendments without having to oppose the entire bill.

I can also attest that none of the above-listed people or organizations have done anything to discourage freshman Rep. Lavender from filing an open-carry bill. We do not oppose any bill that expands firearms rights. The problem at OpenCarry.org is that they have an "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. Since NRA and TSRA didn't blindly support their proposed bill in 2009, we somehow became the enemy. (NRA is supporting a Florida open-carry bill, so I guess that pours water on that claim.)

My comments will not do anything to allay any fears at OpenCarry.org, but I hope it gives some comfort to TexasCHLforum Members.

Chas.

That's good news, but it will leave some folks thinking that only covers one aspect of the issue (Opposition). Does that also mean...that any/all of the mentioned persons/organizations would SUPPORT an Open Carry Bill....(subject to the same restrictions you cited)?

If by support you mean use our political capital to promote it, then the answer is no. Every time you go to an elected official and ask them to support a bill, you make it easier for them not to support something else you want. They can say, "well, I voted for Bill X you want, but I can't help you with this one." This is why we try not to have more than one or two high profile bills filed during the same session. You can run a combination of high profile bills with low profile ones because the less emotional bills don't burn up much political capital.

Chas.

[jimlongley]

Well, it looks like it's time for my biennial disclaimer. I received an email from one of our TexasCHLforum Members who said he read a post or thread on OpenCarry.org indicating a belief that Alice Tripp, TSRA Legislative Director would oppose an open-carry bill. Apparently, some of the folks over there are concerned that Rep. Lavender hasn't filed an open-carry bill yet and are looking for someone to blame. The comment was attributed to a former Member here on TexasCHLforum who was banned for repeatedly violating our rules and the comment was supported by another banned Member who boasts of sneaking back in under a different user name and email address. (Neither of these guys miss an opportunity to badmouth me, but coming from them it hardly matters.)

Let me assure TexasCHLforum Members that neither Alice Tripp, TSRA, NRA, Texas Firearms Coalition, nor I will oppose an open-carry bill if it is filed. The only exception to this statement is the possibility that an open-carry bill might be drafted so broad as to provide an opportunity for anti-gun amendments to be added in committee, or on the floor. We will monitor any open-carry bill just like we monitor every other bill involving firearms or their usage. If anti-gun amendments are proposed, we will fight them and if they are approved and added to the bill, we will have no choice but to try to kill the bill. I believe such amendments would be unlikely, except for the very fertile ground dealing with TPC §30.06. Nevertheless, we should be able to kill any anti-gun amendments without having to oppose the entire bill.

I can also attest that none of the above-listed people or organizations have done anything to discourage freshman Rep. Lavender from filing an open-carry bill. We do not oppose any bill that expands firearms rights. The problem at OpenCarry.org is that they have an "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. Since NRA and TSRA didn't blindly support their proposed bill in 2009, we somehow became the enemy. (NRA is supporting a Florida open-carry bill, so I guess that pours water on that claim.)

My comments will not do anything to allay any fears at OpenCarry.org, but I hope it gives some comfort to TexasCHLforum Members.

Chas.

That's good news, but it will leave some folks thinking that only covers one aspect of the issue (Opposition). Does that also mean...that any/all of the mentioned persons/organizations would SUPPORT an Open Carry Bill....(subject to the same restrictions you cited)?

If by support you mean use our political capital to promote it, then the answer is no. Every time you go to an elected official and ask them to support a bill, you make it easier for them not to support something else you want. They can say, "well, I voted for Bill X you want, but I can't help you with this one." This is why we try not to have more than one or two high profile bills filed during the same session. You can run a combination of high profile bills with low profile ones because the less emotional bills don't burn up much political capital.

Chas.

Yes, and as a proponent of open carry, as well as what some call "Vermont style carry" or "Constitutional carry" I recognize that the legislative process, particularly in Texas with our biennial legislature, is a slow and incremental being, and I would like to see the problems we currently have with what we have fixed before we try to jump over the entire seething swamp and fix it all in one fell swoop. I'll take parking lots and campus carry this session, or even just parking lots, or campus carry (I would prefer arking lots myself) and leave the rest for next time, or the time after . . .

How does one go about eating an elephant?

One bite at a time.

[flintknapper]

Well, it looks like it's time for my biennial disclaimer. I received an email from one of our TexasCHLforum Members who said he read a post or thread on OpenCarry.org indicating a belief that Alice Tripp, TSRA Legislative Director would oppose an open-carry bill. Apparently, some of the folks over there are concerned that Rep. Lavender hasn't filed an open-carry bill yet and are looking for someone to blame. The comment was attributed to a former Member here on TexasCHLforum who was banned for repeatedly violating our rules and the comment was supported by another banned Member who boasts of sneaking back in under a different user name and email address. (Neither of these guys miss an opportunity to badmouth me, but coming from them it hardly matters.)

Let me assure TexasCHLforum Members that neither Alice Tripp, TSRA, NRA, Texas Firearms Coalition, nor I will oppose an open-carry bill if it is filed. The only exception to this statement is the possibility that an open-carry bill might be drafted so broad as to provide an opportunity for anti-gun amendments to be added in committee, or on the floor. We will monitor any open-carry bill just like we monitor every other bill involving firearms or their usage. If anti-gun amendments are proposed, we will fight them and if they are approved and added to the bill, we will have no choice but to try to kill the bill. I believe such amendments would be unlikely, except for the very fertile ground dealing with TPC §30.06. Nevertheless, we should be able to kill any anti-gun amendments without having to oppose the entire bill.

I can also attest that none of the above-listed people or organizations have done anything to discourage freshman Rep. Lavender from filing an open-carry bill. We do not oppose any bill that expands firearms rights. The problem at OpenCarry.org is that they have an "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. Since NRA and TSRA didn't blindly support their proposed bill in 2009, we somehow became the enemy. (NRA is supporting a Florida open-carry bill, so I guess that pours water on that claim.)

My comments will not do anything to allay any fears at OpenCarry.org, but I hope it gives some comfort to TexasCHLforum Members.

Chas.

That's good news, but it will leave some folks thinking that only covers one aspect of the issue (Opposition). Does that also mean...that any/all of the mentioned persons/organizations would SUPPORT an Open Carry Bill....(subject to the same restrictions you cited)?

If by support you mean use our political capital to promote it, then the answer is no. Every time you go to an elected official and ask them to support a bill, you make it easier for them not to support something else you want. They can say, "well, I voted for Bill X you want, but I can't help you with this one." This is why we try not to have more than one or two high profile bills filed during the same session. You can run a combination of high profile bills with low profile ones because the less emotional bills don't burn up much political capital.

Chas.

Yes by "support"...I mean using "political capital" as well as actively (and willingly) promoting the bill in every venue necessary to get it passed. It is one thing to not oppose it (do nothing detrimental to the effort), quite another to "support it" (fully).

I know you have said in the past that IF the TSRA had O.C. on its roster...that YOU would do all you could.... to see it through. I think you referenced the "good soldier" thing....(I think you are an exceptional soldier BTW). I don't know whether others would follow with the same amount of zeal (only that they won't stand in the way).

And...of course, I do not mean for anyone to burn up political capital THIS session, I have said repeatedly...the time is not right. I am hoping an O.C. bill is NOT submitted this session, it would only be a distraction.

I am focusing solely on Campus Carry and the Parking Lot bills. Campus Carry seems to have more than a decent chance, P/L....I have my doubts about, but I will never stop fighting for it.

Thank you, for all that you do to advance our gun rights....I do recognize the monumental effort it takes.


Flint.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Well, it looks like it's time for my biennial disclaimer. I received an email from one of our TexasCHLforum Members who said he read a post or thread on OpenCarry.org indicating a belief that Alice Tripp, TSRA Legislative Director would oppose an open-carry bill. Apparently, some of the folks over there are concerned that Rep. Lavender hasn't filed an open-carry bill yet and are looking for someone to blame. The comment was attributed to a former Member here on TexasCHLforum who was banned for repeatedly violating our rules and the comment was supported by another banned Member who boasts of sneaking back in under a different user name and email address. (Neither of these guys miss an opportunity to badmouth me, but coming from them it hardly matters.)

Let me assure TexasCHLforum Members that neither Alice Tripp, TSRA, NRA, Texas Firearms Coalition, nor I will oppose an open-carry bill if it is filed. The only exception to this statement is the possibility that an open-carry bill might be drafted so broad as to provide an opportunity for anti-gun amendments to be added in committee, or on the floor. We will monitor any open-carry bill just like we monitor every other bill involving firearms or their usage. If anti-gun amendments are proposed, we will fight them and if they are approved and added to the bill, we will have no choice but to try to kill the bill. I believe such amendments would be unlikely, except for the very fertile ground dealing with TPC §30.06. Nevertheless, we should be able to kill any anti-gun amendments without having to oppose the entire bill.

I can also attest that none of the above-listed people or organizations have done anything to discourage freshman Rep. Lavender from filing an open-carry bill. We do not oppose any bill that expands firearms rights. The problem at OpenCarry.org is that they have an "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. Since NRA and TSRA didn't blindly support their proposed bill in 2009, we somehow became the enemy. (NRA is supporting a Florida open-carry bill, so I guess that pours water on that claim.)

My comments will not do anything to allay any fears at OpenCarry.org, but I hope it gives some comfort to TexasCHLforum Members.

Chas.

That's good news, but it will leave some folks thinking that only covers one aspect of the issue (Opposition). Does that also mean...that any/all of the mentioned persons/organizations would SUPPORT an Open Carry Bill....(subject to the same restrictions you cited)?

If by support you mean use our political capital to promote it, then the answer is no. Every time you go to an elected official and ask them to support a bill, you make it easier for them not to support something else you want. They can say, "well, I voted for Bill X you want, but I can't help you with this one." This is why we try not to have more than one or two high profile bills filed during the same session. You can run a combination of high profile bills with low profile ones because the less emotional bills don't burn up much political capital.

Chas.

Yes by "support"...I mean using "political capital" as well as actively (and willingly) promoting the bill in every venue necessary to get it passed. It is one thing to not oppose it (do nothing detrimental to the effort), quite another to "support it" (fully).

I know you have said in the past that IF the TSRA had O.C. on its roster...that YOU would do all you could.... to see it through. I think you referenced the "good soldier" thing....(I think you are an exceptional soldier BTW). I don't know whether others would follow with the same amount of zeal (only that they won't stand in the way).

And...of course, I do not mean for anyone to burn up political capital THIS session, I have said repeatedly...the time is not right. I am hoping an O.C. bill is NOT submitted this session, it would only be a distraction.

I am focusing solely on Campus Carry and the Parking Lot bills. Campus Carry seems to have more than a decent chance, P/L....I have my doubts about, but I will never stop fighting for it.

Thank you, for all that you do to advance our gun rights....I do recognize the monumental effort it takes.


Flint.

Depending upon the growth of the Texas Firearms Coalition, the groundwork for open-carry may begin later this year and education is the key. I'll be candid, numbers matter and if we don't have the membership to turn some heads in Austin, there's no point in expanding our focus from the education element of the TFC Mission Statement. As we grow, we'll take on more projects.

Chas.

[flintknapper]

Well, it looks like it's time for my biennial disclaimer. I received an email from one of our TexasCHLforum Members who said he read a post or thread on OpenCarry.org indicating a belief that Alice Tripp, TSRA Legislative Director would oppose an open-carry bill. Apparently, some of the folks over there are concerned that Rep. Lavender hasn't filed an open-carry bill yet and are looking for someone to blame. The comment was attributed to a former Member here on TexasCHLforum who was banned for repeatedly violating our rules and the comment was supported by another banned Member who boasts of sneaking back in under a different user name and email address. (Neither of these guys miss an opportunity to badmouth me, but coming from them it hardly matters.)

Let me assure TexasCHLforum Members that neither Alice Tripp, TSRA, NRA, Texas Firearms Coalition, nor I will oppose an open-carry bill if it is filed. The only exception to this statement is the possibility that an open-carry bill might be drafted so broad as to provide an opportunity for anti-gun amendments to be added in committee, or on the floor. We will monitor any open-carry bill just like we monitor every other bill involving firearms or their usage. If anti-gun amendments are proposed, we will fight them and if they are approved and added to the bill, we will have no choice but to try to kill the bill. I believe such amendments would be unlikely, except for the very fertile ground dealing with TPC §30.06. Nevertheless, we should be able to kill any anti-gun amendments without having to oppose the entire bill.

I can also attest that none of the above-listed people or organizations have done anything to discourage freshman Rep. Lavender from filing an open-carry bill. We do not oppose any bill that expands firearms rights. The problem at OpenCarry.org is that they have an "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. Since NRA and TSRA didn't blindly support their proposed bill in 2009, we somehow became the enemy. (NRA is supporting a Florida open-carry bill, so I guess that pours water on that claim.)

My comments will not do anything to allay any fears at OpenCarry.org, but I hope it gives some comfort to TexasCHLforum Members.

Chas.

That's good news, but it will leave some folks thinking that only covers one aspect of the issue (Opposition). Does that also mean...that any/all of the mentioned persons/organizations would SUPPORT an Open Carry Bill....(subject to the same restrictions you cited)?

If by support you mean use our political capital to promote it, then the answer is no. Every time you go to an elected official and ask them to support a bill, you make it easier for them not to support something else you want. They can say, "well, I voted for Bill X you want, but I can't help you with this one." This is why we try not to have more than one or two high profile bills filed during the same session. You can run a combination of high profile bills with low profile ones because the less emotional bills don't burn up much political capital.

Chas.

Yes by "support"...I mean using "political capital" as well as actively (and willingly) promoting the bill in every venue necessary to get it passed. It is one thing to not oppose it (do nothing detrimental to the effort), quite another to "support it" (fully).

I know you have said in the past that IF the TSRA had O.C. on its roster...that YOU would do all you could.... to see it through. I think you referenced the "good soldier" thing....(I think you are an exceptional soldier BTW). I don't know whether others would follow with the same amount of zeal (only that they won't stand in the way).

And...of course, I do not mean for anyone to burn up political capital THIS session, I have said repeatedly...the time is not right. I am hoping an O.C. bill is NOT submitted this session, it would only be a distraction.

I am focusing solely on Campus Carry and the Parking Lot bills. Campus Carry seems to have more than a decent chance, P/L....I have my doubts about, but I will never stop fighting for it.

Thank you, for all that you do to advance our gun rights....I do recognize the monumental effort it takes.


Flint.

Depending upon the growth of the Texas Firearms Coalition, the groundwork for open-carry may begin later this year and education is the key. I'll be candid, numbers matter and if we don't have the membership to turn some heads in Austin, there's no point in expanding our focus from the education element of the TFC Mission Statement. As we grow, we'll take on more projects.

Chas.

Fair enough friend!

[EconDoc]

If I can support what Charles had to say about political capital, we cannot get everything that we want this session. I want concealed carry on college campuses, but, even if it does pass, that will not help me, since the bill had to exclude private schools in order to have any chance of passing. If private schools are covered by the parking-lot bill, maybe I can at least carry and leave it in my truck, so that I have some protection on my commute. But, I haven't heard if private colleges will be covered by that like non-educational employers. I assume so, but don't know.

Trying to get all or nothing will get us nothing. TSRA has to pick and choose and limit what they ask for in any legislative session in order to be effective at all. I don't like, but that is the way politics works, and raising the devil about it will not change anything. If we can get campus carry and a parking lot bill this year, maybe in two years we can get OC and extension of campus carry to private colleges. At least, that is my hope.

[RHenriksen]

I just saw a posting that a constitutional carry bill is going to be filed (or has been?) filed in the Maine legislature. Perhaps if it does well, it will help make the idea of open carry seem less extreme here in Texas?

What am I saying, nobody pays any attention to what other states' experiences are! Well, at least the anti's don't. That's why we hear 'blood in the streets!' in state, after state, after state...

[blue]

Try googling- 'Permitless carry', and other terms, constitutional carry, etc.
there is a LOT of changes in process in other states.

[G26ster]

I think the term "Constitutional Carry" is a poor substitute for "Open Carry." The Constitution ensures RKBA rights, but it doesn't prevent gov't from restricting those rights to criminals, mentaly unstable persons, etc. By supporting any legislation called Constitutional Carry, you may be giving the impression to the anti's that you believe ALL persons may carry a gun because of 2A Constitutional rights. That's a whole different impression than Open Carry. MHO.

[jimlongley]

I think the term "Constitutional Carry" is a poor substitute for "Open Carry." The Constitution ensures RKBA rights, but it doesn't prevent gov't from restricting those rights to criminals, mentaly unstable persons, etc. By supporting any legislation called Constitutional Carry, you may be giving the impression to the anti's that you believe ALL persons may carry a gun because of 2A Constitutional rights. That's a whole different impression than Open Carry. MHO.

Funny, I see it just the other way around. "Open Carry" implies anyone can do it, while in my view "Constitutional Carry" indeed doesn't prevent the right from being restricted from criminals, etc.